Animating the Inanimate with Master of Puppets Paul Lewis

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Welcome back to Nightmare Logic, the podcast

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where we worship all manner of murder dolls,

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evil puppets, and possessed plushies. We’re your

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scary marionettes, Christopher Smith and Peter

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Sawyer. And today we’re having a fun conversation

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with Taffeta’s friend and master of puppets,

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Paul Lewis, to discuss breathing life into the

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Megan doll and his work as a puppeteer and reanimator

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of the inanimate. All right. So today it’s just

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me and Peter because, um, Taffeta unfortunately

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is, is not feeling so well, so she wasn’t able

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to make it today. I’m actually also getting over

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a sinus infection and cold. So if I sound a little

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funky, that’s why, um, it’s been a little bit

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of a, of a rough week for us over here at nightmare

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logic, but, um, we’re pulling through. So, um,

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Peter, how are you doing? It’s a different form

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of a June gloom as they call it. Um, I’m good.

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I, uh, I saw the band Midnight. I really like,

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uh, last Thursday or two Thursdays ago at this.

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Actually where you and I saw Homefront at Knucklehead.

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And Midnight’s is kind of, they call themselves

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Black Rock and Roll, which is kind of a hybrid

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of speed metal and punk. It’s sort of like Venom

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or I guess Motorhead, but they wear these black

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hoods and their faces are blacked out. So they

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have a great aesthetic and it’s all like satanic,

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blasphemous, you know, lyrics. So as far as a

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band ever being in a movie, they’re like my ideal

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choice of in a horror movie because they’re just

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perfect for that. But yeah, it was fun. It was

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just as crowded as that other show we went to,

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which is a little hectic, but. Right. Cool, cool.

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Did you see anything interesting? It’s been about

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two weeks since we recorded, so I should actually,

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maybe I’ll mention this up top. We’ve kind of

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decided that in order to like keep the quality

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high and, you know, to balance our busy schedules,

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that we’re probably going to have to move to

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a bi -weekly recording. So it’s been two weeks

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since we recorded and we probably won’t have

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another episode for two weeks. So once we’re

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able to kind of, you know, bring enough money

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from the podcast that we can focus on this, we’re

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probably going to have to do a little bit more

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of a limited schedule. Apologies for that. But

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yeah, so what have you seen in the last two weeks?

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Anything interesting? Yeah, I got a couple things.

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This first one is kind of, it’s not horror, but

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it’s worth mentioning, I think for a couple reasons.

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And that was the movie Normal, which is kind

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of a dark crime comedy featuring Bob Odenkirk,

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where he plays a sheriff in this Midwestern town.

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It’s winter, and he kind of has this devil…

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may care attitude, which makes him an interesting

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character to watch. But basically, something’s

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up with a town that comes through ahead in a

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shootout, and then it goes into this very violent

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and gory mode that’s really entertaining. But

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what surprised me, because I didn’t know this,

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is that Ben Wheatley directed it, and he comes

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from horror. He was the director of Kill List,

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and he did In the Earth, and he did the Meg,

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too. But I, I got a huge kick out of this because

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it wasn’t exactly like, uh, what’s, what’s the

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other Bob Odenkirk movies? It’s like John Wick,

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Nobody. It was, it’s different than that. I was

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expecting more of that for some reason, but I

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was compelled to write a review because I was

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really charmed by it. And this is the first time

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I’ve seen this. So I published the review and

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all of a sudden a video pops up from Bob Odenkirk

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being like, Hey viewer, thank you so much for

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writing a review. So I thought that was just

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a cool feature that I and I leave plenty of reviews

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on letterbox so Yeah, he that’s things they can

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do now is they can uh, thank you for reviews

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and I left a positive one I only leave positive

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reviews and if you want to follow me on letterbox

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if you’re like Peter has great taste in movies

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or fuck I hate what he’s saying about movies

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my Handle is glass blood, but I wanted to mention

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that just because it was so Yeah, the video from

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Bob Odenkirk really is cool. Yeah, I too am on

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Letterboxd, and my letterboxd name is Eyes Peeled

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Open. I’d say follow me, but honestly I’m relatively

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new, so there’s not a lot to see there, I’m sure,

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but I’m trying to embrace it. I actually really

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like it as a platform, so it’s cool. I saw…

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a movie called Come True, which is written and

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directed by Anthony Scott Burns. I had, I think

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started watching this during COVID and for whatever

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reason didn’t finish it. I didn’t get very far,

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but I thought it was cool. So I was like, yeah,

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let me, let me actually watch this. And I, yeah,

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I really jelled with it. It follows this girl

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who’s a runaway and she ends up in a sleep study

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and kind of it explores night terrors. So there’s

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a lot of like going into nightmares. Um, but

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what I didn’t expect is it, it kind of reminded

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me of altered States with some of the visuals

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and some of the gear she’s, she’s wearing or

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some of the other sleep study patients. But then

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you juxtapose it with kind of the mood and the

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look in that is straight out of drive. So I was

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like, this is, this is really interesting. Um,

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and I went afterwards, I looked it up and it

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was like electric youth who had a song like that

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college song. that’s on the drive soundtrack,

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scored this. So I was, that influence is pretty

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prevalent. And I like the ending, which I may

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have turned some people off, but I just, I really

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appreciated how that caught me off guard. And

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that’s, I think it’s on Shutter, but it’s probably

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streaming elsewhere as well. Check that out.

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That sounds cool. It’s, yeah, it’s kind of a

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mood piece, but there’s a plot to it. And it’s

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just, I just kind of enjoyed their approach to

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making that film. Then what about you Christopher?

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Do you want me to just go into the back rooms?

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I You talked about obsession. I finally saw it.

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Ah And really enjoyed it and I actually went

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last night. I wanted to see back rooms, but I

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was worried Well, you know, I just kind of thought

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obsession would maybe leave the theater sooner

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and it’s getting a little older and you know

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So before that becomes irrelevant, I just check

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it out And I really liked it. I thought it was

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great it I definitely can tell that it was filmed

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for a lower budget. It feels contained. There’s

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only a handful of locations. But they did a really

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good job of it not really feeling like that.

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It didn’t feel low budget, even though it was

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contained. Obviously, as everyone’s been saying,

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the acting’s been incredible and is what really

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sells it. And yeah, all in all, I thought it

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was great. I see why it’s doing as well as it

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is. Well, that’s cool. I’m glad you enjoyed it.

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I probably would have seen Backrooms if I wasn’t

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sick this week. That threw everything off for

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me. But did you see Backrooms? I did. But I’d

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say you should check out Curry Barker’s The Chair

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on YouTube, because that’s the movie that got

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him obsession. But yes, I did see Cain Parsons.

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back rooms and I, I really enjoyed it. Um, I’ve

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only watched the first episode of his YouTube

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series and I, I thought it was fine. Um, it didn’t

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grab me the way it grabbed a lot of people, including

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my wife Anya. Um, so when I found out she liked

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that and she’s like, yeah, we gotta go see the

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movie. I was like, okay, yeah, I’m down. Um,

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and we, so we checked it out here in Pasadena

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and it’s, it’s cool because it was this like

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old theater that’s called the Regal Academy.

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And it’s, it’s cheap. Like I think tickets were

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like under $10 and this was like a Saturday night.

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Um, so it was like an old, you know, it even

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had a balcony. So it, back rooms kind of reminds

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me of like this Alison, like abandoned wonderland,

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uh, situation in a, like an abandoned furniture

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store. Like if it was designed by MC Etcher with

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really wild imagination. It follows this guy

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who, he works at this furniture store and he’s

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a therapist and he ends up discovering, you know,

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there’s an issue with the power in the store.

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And so he gets suspicious about it and it leads

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him discovering the back rooms, you know? And

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he goes exploring, he’s very captivated with

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that. And so it’s got a lot of imagination. some

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great moments it uh it kind of reminded me of

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the found footage horror movie as above so below

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because it it’s getting lost in a place that

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doesn’t make sense and there’s scary things that

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happen and it uh it had the vibe of this show

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uh channel zero that’s that’s also what it kind

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of reminded me of um it did have a misstep for

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me and i i get why it’s there but it sort of

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killed The momentum once it got going. Um, and

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it was, it was jarring. I just, it felt weird.

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I don’t know if it was like studio note. Um,

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it sort of explains things, but it, it, if I

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look online, I’ve seen other people talk about

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that. Uh, so I don’t know why they felt like

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maybe they could have workshopped that a little

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bit more, but I don’t know. But the good thing

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was, was like that kind of kick things back to

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get back on track. And I enjoyed the rest of

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it. Um, so it certainly brings out the weird

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Great. I’m looking forward to seeing it. You

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know, I I thought the uh youtube series Probably

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similar to you. I I thought the tone was amazing.

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I thought it was imaginative. There’s so many

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really creative things about it I also kind of

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felt like at times it It it could have moved

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a little quicker or something like, you know,

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that was kind of my problem with it But I kind

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of have a feeling that a more polished you know

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Budget with you know a more experienced team

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around him. I imagine it could be really cool

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and the castings great So yeah, I mean it’s it’s

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There’s just the one thing that was my like minor

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criticism of it. Yeah What else would I say what’s

00:10:36.100 –> 00:10:38.679
interesting is Kane Parsons is the the director

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right and he’s easy on guy I think he’s 20 and

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now he like that movie did very, very well. He’s

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getting asked like, oh, so what would you like

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to direct as a, my friend Daniel Soplinski is

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way into the back rooms of series in the movie.

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And I guess he’s, he’s like, I, I don’t want

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to remake anything. Like he has no interest in

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that, which is really refreshing because yeah.

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Um, yeah. Why we don’t need to do that. Yeah.

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I read an interview with him where he was basically

00:11:06.799 –> 00:11:10.250
saying that. I mean, I’m sure you probably do

00:11:10.250 –> 00:11:12.009
lots of things in addition to this but he wants

00:11:12.009 –> 00:11:15.009
to actually build this out into like a bigger

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universe, you know, potentially even in other

00:11:17.509 –> 00:11:20.269
formats like comic books and You know, maybe

00:11:20.269 –> 00:11:22.549
TV shows and things like that. So who knows maybe

00:11:22.549 –> 00:11:26.990
he’s creating his own new franchise of You know

00:11:26.990 –> 00:11:30.590
billion -dollar franchise So did you have any

00:11:30.590 –> 00:11:32.549
other films that you want to talk about? Yeah,

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I’ll mention one other movie I saw Don’t have

00:11:36.990 –> 00:11:39.769
the director’s name in front of me, but it’s

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it’s one that was hyped by a couple people for

00:11:42.870 –> 00:11:45.850
me called the plague It’s not a supernatural

00:11:45.850 –> 00:11:51.350
movie, but it’s basically these This kid goes

00:11:51.350 –> 00:11:56.710
to a water polo school like our camp and it’s

00:11:56.710 –> 00:11:59.990
young kids that are like 12 and 13 acting like

00:11:59.990 –> 00:12:03.149
12 and 13 year olds and They kind of ostracize

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one other kid and they say he has the plague

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And so it kind of preys on, you know, insecurities

00:12:10.179 –> 00:12:12.940
of being a 12 year old boy. And it doesn’t, it’s

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really effective. I saw the trailer for this

00:12:15.600 –> 00:12:19.720
actually. Is it on shutter? Not yet. Or I, yeah,

00:12:19.720 –> 00:12:21.539
maybe I just watched the trailer, but yeah, it

00:12:21.539 –> 00:12:24.899
looked pretty like intense. I mean, it’s, yeah,

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it’s, it’s, it’s great. It’s, uh, the ending

00:12:27.919 –> 00:12:30.379
is a little weird, but I’m like, I don’t know

00:12:30.379 –> 00:12:33.820
how I’d end it based on like the trajectory events

00:12:33.820 –> 00:12:38.409
that happen. And it has I am blanking on the

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actor’s name who is in the thing remake at Joel

00:12:41.149 –> 00:12:43.710
Edgerton Egerton Is that how you say his name?

00:12:44.730 –> 00:12:47.389
I? Think it’s Edgerton. Yeah, he’s he’s the coach

00:12:47.389 –> 00:12:51.610
of the swim team But yeah, it was really captivating

00:12:51.610 –> 00:12:53.730
and there’s some really cool shots like this

00:12:53.730 –> 00:12:56.490
cinematography. I thought was excellent and just

00:12:56.490 –> 00:13:00.590
nice nice Interesting one. How about you anything

00:13:00.590 –> 00:13:05.350
else? I also rewatched Megan in honor of our

00:13:05.350 –> 00:13:08.610
upcoming interview on this episode. We’ll get

00:13:08.610 –> 00:13:11.669
into that a little bit, but, uh, basically, uh,

00:13:11.669 –> 00:13:14.149
our guest today was one of the puppeteers on

00:13:14.149 –> 00:13:17.090
Megan. And so I wanted to familiarize myself

00:13:17.090 –> 00:13:20.789
with the movie and, uh, it’s, it’s a, it’s a

00:13:20.789 –> 00:13:26.029
crowd pleaser. So, um, cool. Well, let’s get

00:13:26.029 –> 00:13:30.169
into the news a bit and, uh, piggybacking on

00:13:30.169 –> 00:13:33.330
our conversation about the back rooms and obsession.

00:13:33.710 –> 00:13:35.730
The first story I’m going to talk about, which

00:13:35.730 –> 00:13:40.070
should be no surprise to anybody, is the crazy

00:13:40.070 –> 00:13:44.070
success of both of those films. So the back rooms

00:13:44.070 –> 00:13:47.909
has officially crossed $81 million in revenue.

00:13:48.629 –> 00:13:51.570
And that’s after being out. Actually, I got all

00:13:51.570 –> 00:13:54.950
the numbers right here. So up to today, today

00:13:54.950 –> 00:13:59.470
we’re recording on June 7th. It has gross domestically,

00:13:59.730 –> 00:14:04.710
$117 million. internationally, another $37 million.

00:14:05.789 –> 00:14:08.769
And so worldwide that puts it at $154 million

00:14:08.769 –> 00:14:15.629
in basically a week, nine days, 10 days, something

00:14:15.629 –> 00:14:19.090
like that. So that’s like, you know, you’re,

00:14:19.250 –> 00:14:23.429
you’re kind of getting into tent pole territory

00:14:23.429 –> 00:14:26.690
with those kind of, you know, receipts. And what’s

00:14:26.690 –> 00:14:31.129
crazier is that while that was happening. We

00:14:31.129 –> 00:14:33.690
also had obsession, which was going into its

00:14:33.690 –> 00:14:38.649
second and third week. And it’s grossed 134 million

00:14:38.649 –> 00:14:41.429
domestically, another 44 million internationally

00:14:41.429 –> 00:14:47.929
and $178 million worldwide. Wow. And so when

00:14:47.929 –> 00:14:50.529
obsession dropped, everybody was surprised by

00:14:50.529 –> 00:14:53.090
how well it did that opening weekend. And then

00:14:53.090 –> 00:14:55.289
back rooms came out the weekend after that, which

00:14:55.289 –> 00:14:57.350
blew, you know, they were estimated $20 million

00:14:57.350 –> 00:15:02.019
and it grossed like close to, I think it was

00:15:02.019 –> 00:15:04.100
80 million in the first opening weekend or something.

00:15:05.120 –> 00:15:08.340
And what’s nuts is that obsession in its second

00:15:08.340 –> 00:15:11.059
weekend, while that was going on, actually increased

00:15:11.059 –> 00:15:14.559
the amount it took in, in the box office. And

00:15:14.559 –> 00:15:17.679
everybody thought that, you know, back rooms

00:15:17.679 –> 00:15:20.840
would cannibalize obsessions box office numbers,

00:15:21.039 –> 00:15:24.840
but really they’re both doing gangbusters. And

00:15:24.840 –> 00:15:26.279
who knows how well they could have done if they

00:15:26.279 –> 00:15:28.840
were, you know, not both at the same time, but

00:15:29.129 –> 00:15:32.669
but regardless it bodes really well for horror

00:15:32.669 –> 00:15:34.730
movies in general and of course it’s starting

00:15:34.730 –> 00:15:39.070
this whole conversation about the future of YouTube

00:15:39.070 –> 00:15:42.629
and filmmakers coming from YouTube, which for

00:15:42.629 –> 00:15:44.990
a lot of indie filmmakers is, you know, there

00:15:44.990 –> 00:15:48.149
might be an entry here for a new pathway for

00:15:48.149 –> 00:15:51.269
people to start their careers. So that’s pretty

00:15:51.269 –> 00:15:52.610
exciting. And then, you know, then we also had

00:15:52.610 –> 00:15:55.309
Iron Lung, you know, a few months ago, so. Well,

00:15:55.309 –> 00:15:57.759
you have talked to me. The predates all that

00:15:57.759 –> 00:16:00.200
those guys were talking to me and I’m sure there’s

00:16:00.200 –> 00:16:02.620
there’s others. Um, do you know what the budget

00:16:02.620 –> 00:16:06.080
was for back rooms? Um, I don’t, but I, I know

00:16:06.080 –> 00:16:09.419
it’s not, you know, it’s not like, uh, obsession

00:16:09.419 –> 00:16:12.120
was right. It’s not like obsession where obsession

00:16:12.120 –> 00:16:16.259
was like 500 ,000 to 700 ,000, some one million

00:16:16.259 –> 00:16:19.039
dollar budget. Yeah. And, and now, you know,

00:16:19.039 –> 00:16:21.000
and gross that much, but you know, it was a good

00:16:21.000 –> 00:16:23.220
investment regardless. Like they’ve more than

00:16:23.220 –> 00:16:24.720
made their money back. And this is, you know,

00:16:24.720 –> 00:16:28.440
again, only Day nine or ten like this. I this

00:16:28.440 –> 00:16:30.679
is gonna go probably six hundred million plus,

00:16:30.779 –> 00:16:33.120
you know, it’s pretty crazy I mean, you know

00:16:33.120 –> 00:16:36.340
once you factor in all of the like box office

00:16:36.340 –> 00:16:40.179
and then streaming and all of that so um, you

00:16:40.179 –> 00:16:42.139
know, I mean what’s kind of interesting about

00:16:42.139 –> 00:16:49.200
both those guys is I think Curry Barker like

00:16:49.200 –> 00:16:52.360
he he wanted to be a filmmaker. I think Cain

00:16:52.360 –> 00:16:56.159
Parsons was just like Making some you know like

00:16:56.159 –> 00:16:59.679
doing his YouTube thing, but it’s they both kind

00:16:59.679 –> 00:17:03.419
of cracked that code where Hollywood’s in a oh,

00:17:03.799 –> 00:17:06.200
I don’t mean spiraling or what but you get these

00:17:06.200 –> 00:17:09.960
kids that come on YouTube and Show they can do

00:17:09.960 –> 00:17:13.759
this and Then prove themselves on the big screen

00:17:13.759 –> 00:17:16.599
it just goes to show right like the narrative

00:17:16.599 –> 00:17:19.380
in Hollywood because you know Hollywood studios

00:17:19.380 –> 00:17:22.250
and stuff never want to take risks that They

00:17:22.250 –> 00:17:23.849
just rehash all, you know, they’re like, well,

00:17:23.890 –> 00:17:26.829
let’s get an IP because it’s more likely that

00:17:26.829 –> 00:17:30.230
you have a built in audience, but I think, you

00:17:30.230 –> 00:17:32.289
know, audiences are a little tired of seeing

00:17:32.289 –> 00:17:34.970
the same thing over and over again. Yeah. And

00:17:34.970 –> 00:17:36.730
a hundredth Marvel movie. They’re like, where

00:17:36.730 –> 00:17:39.069
it’s like sucked all the end, the imagination

00:17:39.069 –> 00:17:41.650
out of the stories. And when you have these original

00:17:41.650 –> 00:17:44.250
IPs with, you know, directors who care about

00:17:44.250 –> 00:17:47.490
what they’re making, It shows in the final result

00:17:47.490 –> 00:17:50.109
and people see something new and and you know,

00:17:50.109 –> 00:17:54.410
it can capture your imagination I think this

00:17:54.410 –> 00:17:57.710
is potential the future of indie filmmaking in

00:17:57.710 –> 00:18:02.230
a lot of ways because You know the old models

00:18:02.230 –> 00:18:04.250
kind of dead I think with the film festivals.

00:18:04.250 –> 00:18:07.690
It’s like you almost have to really be finding

00:18:07.690 –> 00:18:10.420
your audience and well just doing it yourself,

00:18:10.420 –> 00:18:12.299
you know, not to say you can’t work that way.

00:18:12.799 –> 00:18:14.960
Cause I would push back on that maybe for short

00:18:14.960 –> 00:18:17.759
films, but obsession was like a darling at film

00:18:17.759 –> 00:18:21.720
festivals before it, you know, you’re a hundred

00:18:21.720 –> 00:18:23.220
percent right. You’re, you’re a hundred percent

00:18:23.220 –> 00:18:26.819
right. Because my understanding is that, uh,

00:18:27.019 –> 00:18:31.000
so Blumhouse, um, actually bought it at a festival.

00:18:31.440 –> 00:18:32.960
And so my understanding is that they made it

00:18:32.960 –> 00:18:34.980
for like sub $1 million, but then Blumhouse bought

00:18:34.980 –> 00:18:37.910
it for something like 23 million hours. Yeah,

00:18:37.910 –> 00:18:39.670
something like that something crazy like that,

00:18:39.670 –> 00:18:42.529
which was a good deal for them, too So yeah,

00:18:42.529 –> 00:18:44.769
I think like that’s a very very good point. I

00:18:44.769 –> 00:18:46.990
mean, there’s still I’m not writing the depth

00:18:46.990 –> 00:18:49.109
of film festivals I still like film festivals

00:18:49.109 –> 00:18:50.970
and we’re going that route with our short but

00:18:50.970 –> 00:18:53.809
the flip side of the sort of streaming wars and

00:18:53.809 –> 00:18:56.970
streaming taking over everything is that some

00:18:56.970 –> 00:19:00.250
of these digital tools like YouTube and other

00:19:00.250 –> 00:19:03.910
platforms that are open to independent filmmakers

00:19:03.910 –> 00:19:08.440
allow us to find our own way in into distribution

00:19:08.440 –> 00:19:11.539
in the market and I’m also not one of those people

00:19:11.539 –> 00:19:15.539
who are really I’ve evangelizing that because

00:19:15.539 –> 00:19:19.000
You know, I I I don’t necessarily agree that

00:19:19.000 –> 00:19:24.160
it’s like Always makes the most sense to go that

00:19:24.160 –> 00:19:27.000
route but You know, it’s just the fact that we

00:19:27.000 –> 00:19:28.980
have these different options is great, right?

00:19:29.220 –> 00:19:31.920
Well, it’s also with YouTube. I mean something

00:19:31.920 –> 00:19:34.599
that you have to address is If, if you’ve been

00:19:34.599 –> 00:19:38.519
making content for on YouTube for so long, you,

00:19:38.720 –> 00:19:41.940
you develop a following. And so then your following

00:19:41.940 –> 00:19:44.799
follows you to the theaters. Right. So that’s,

00:19:44.940 –> 00:19:46.779
that’s something these guys did is they built

00:19:46.779 –> 00:19:49.519
a following with what they would put on, on YouTube.

00:19:50.319 –> 00:19:53.099
So it’s, yeah, if you’re making stuff on YouTube

00:19:53.099 –> 00:19:55.380
and you don’t quite have the followers, it might

00:19:55.380 –> 00:19:57.920
be harder for you to, to get your thing made

00:19:57.920 –> 00:20:01.900
like the rest of us. And this also shows, and

00:20:01.900 –> 00:20:04.289
what I think is the top headline here. That horror

00:20:04.289 –> 00:20:08.089
really is having a moment. Well, as like a kid

00:20:08.089 –> 00:20:11.690
or a grownup, whatever, um, who’s always loved

00:20:11.690 –> 00:20:14.890
horror films, they always, I thought were in

00:20:14.890 –> 00:20:18.150
vogue, uh, whether or not Hollywood was or wasn’t

00:20:18.150 –> 00:20:21.650
paying attention, you know, there’s always an

00:20:21.650 –> 00:20:23.970
audience for a horror movie, right? But, but

00:20:23.970 –> 00:20:26.329
these are the two highest grossing horror movies

00:20:26.329 –> 00:20:29.630
of all time. And, uh, you know, that’s the point

00:20:29.630 –> 00:20:32.910
is like, there’s, there was like, In some ways

00:20:32.910 –> 00:20:35.269
there’s a floor, you know, right? Like you’re

00:20:35.269 –> 00:20:36.950
always, it’s like you’re always sort of guaranteed

00:20:36.950 –> 00:20:39.269
a certain audience in a way, but you’re also

00:20:39.269 –> 00:20:41.369
sort of guaranteed not to exceed a certain audience,

00:20:41.630 –> 00:20:43.990
or at least historically. Maybe in the 80s it

00:20:43.990 –> 00:20:45.809
was different. I wasn’t really paying attention

00:20:45.809 –> 00:20:49.390
back then, but as far as I’ve been paying attention,

00:20:49.490 –> 00:20:50.869
it’s like, there’s always a place for horror

00:20:50.869 –> 00:20:52.910
and there’s always an audience, but it was never

00:20:52.910 –> 00:20:56.390
like breaking through into these mainstream numbers

00:20:56.390 –> 00:20:59.349
like we’re getting now. I wonder if it’s like,

00:20:59.369 –> 00:21:02.970
the combination of COVID and politics and all

00:21:02.970 –> 00:21:06.250
these things that are just like, they got doom

00:21:06.250 –> 00:21:09.829
scrolling these days. Right. Um, is part of that

00:21:09.829 –> 00:21:12.910
the reaction to it? I don’t know. Yeah. I mean,

00:21:13.089 –> 00:21:15.349
my personal take on it is that there’s like,

00:21:15.890 –> 00:21:17.630
that’s where the energy and the creativity is

00:21:17.630 –> 00:21:20.930
right now. Right. And, uh, you know, because

00:21:20.930 –> 00:21:23.609
indie films in general are like, is usually where

00:21:23.609 –> 00:21:26.319
the creative. creativity and sort of energy comes

00:21:26.319 –> 00:21:28.980
from because it does far more like passion projects.

00:21:29.220 –> 00:21:31.200
And then, you know, the big studio ones, it’s

00:21:31.200 –> 00:21:34.819
like, you know, a bit more business like, but,

00:21:35.380 –> 00:21:38.359
um, I think that we’ve lost a little bit of that

00:21:38.359 –> 00:21:41.700
indie vibe because all those go straight to like,

00:21:41.700 –> 00:21:43.819
you know, streaming and then they’re like often

00:21:43.819 –> 00:21:46.400
driven by algorithms. And, and I think that like,

00:21:46.440 –> 00:21:49.200
there’s a bit of a hunger for these like, uh,

00:21:49.200 –> 00:21:51.420
more unique films with unique perspectives and

00:21:51.420 –> 00:21:53.900
things and the horror. Allows that like in fact

00:21:53.900 –> 00:21:56.180
it encourages it, you know, right? Well, it also

00:21:56.180 –> 00:21:58.940
because we locked it there’s a lockdown then

00:21:58.940 –> 00:22:01.420
If you look at the timeline of when Cain Parsons

00:22:01.420 –> 00:22:04.180
made the back rooms, I bet during that lockdown

00:22:04.180 –> 00:22:07.279
He was like figuring out how to film, you know

00:22:07.279 –> 00:22:11.319
for sure. I mean it has to be if he’s 20 I mean

00:22:11.319 –> 00:22:13.519
that’s something else to think about yeah, like

00:22:13.519 –> 00:22:15.759
16 but he was doing it I think slightly before

00:22:15.759 –> 00:22:18.200
that but yeah that gave him the time to to create

00:22:18.200 –> 00:22:22.269
that That’s crazy, which is well Moving on to

00:22:22.269 –> 00:22:24.750
the next news thing. I’m really curious to get

00:22:24.750 –> 00:22:28.230
your opinion on something So Zack Snyder is set

00:22:28.230 –> 00:22:32.369
to direct a reimagining of John Carpenter’s escape

00:22:32.369 –> 00:22:35.049
from New York and I know you’re a huge John Carpenter

00:22:35.049 –> 00:22:40.049
fan and You’re also a Kurt Russell fan. So So

00:22:40.049 –> 00:22:42.490
let it what do you think about this is good bad.

00:22:42.490 –> 00:22:47.339
What do you think? Well, it’s interesting. It

00:22:47.339 –> 00:22:50.519
feels inevitable. I remember, I think it was

00:22:50.519 –> 00:22:52.299
a year ago or a few months ago, I thought it

00:22:52.299 –> 00:22:54.839
was Radio Silence who was doing the Escape from

00:22:54.839 –> 00:22:59.819
New York remake. And then I look back when this

00:22:59.819 –> 00:23:03.039
movie Lockout came out, which I don’t remember

00:23:03.039 –> 00:23:07.700
what year, but that was James Matheson Saint,

00:23:07.880 –> 00:23:10.619
I’m gonna butcher his last name, Luc Bessant

00:23:10.619 –> 00:23:14.769
was a writer on it. And it featured Guy Pearce,

00:23:14.769 –> 00:23:16.569
and I saw the trailer to that in the movie, and

00:23:16.569 –> 00:23:19.369
it’s like, and his name is, the name’s no, but

00:23:19.369 –> 00:23:22.349
I was like, Snake Plissken? Because it was basically

00:23:22.349 –> 00:23:24.670
Escape from New York in space, or a combination

00:23:24.670 –> 00:23:27.210
of the first two. John Carpenter sued in one,

00:23:27.250 –> 00:23:30.650
but my point is, they already remade Escape from

00:23:30.650 –> 00:23:35.130
New York. So now, alright, so they’re gonna do

00:23:35.130 –> 00:23:40.190
it for real. What Zack Snyder should do is cast

00:23:40.190 –> 00:23:44.509
Kurt Russell’s son. as sneak plus skin like that

00:23:44.509 –> 00:23:47.509
would probably be a smart thing to do. But I,

00:23:47.690 –> 00:23:50.970
his style, I don’t know if it complements what

00:23:50.970 –> 00:23:53.049
people liked about the original escape from New

00:23:53.049 –> 00:23:55.670
York. Cause that was not to use the word, but

00:23:55.670 –> 00:23:57.349
I’m going to use it. It was dark and gritty,

00:23:57.670 –> 00:23:59.869
right? It was like New York, graffiti to all

00:23:59.869 –> 00:24:02.690
this, the way it was shot reflected that, you

00:24:02.690 –> 00:24:06.930
know, Zach Snyder does 300 and it’s like the

00:24:06.930 –> 00:24:09.089
flashiest thing in the world. And that’s just

00:24:09.089 –> 00:24:14.039
not, um, what Escape from New York was right.

00:24:14.180 –> 00:24:15.940
No, it’s not. That’s a very good point I mean

00:24:15.940 –> 00:24:19.839
he is a big budget tentpole kind of director.

00:24:20.160 –> 00:24:23.619
He’s kind of known to be on the darker side of

00:24:23.619 –> 00:24:25.940
that, right? But I agree with you that it’s very

00:24:25.940 –> 00:24:28.500
polished and slick in a way that may not service

00:24:28.500 –> 00:24:30.839
the story Well, he’s also very controversial,

00:24:30.839 –> 00:24:34.099
you know and and He has a big fan base, but there’s

00:24:34.099 –> 00:24:36.700
also a lot of haters and detractors Yeah, I mean

00:24:36.700 –> 00:24:39.839
I think when he did the dawn of the dead remake

00:24:40.079 –> 00:24:43.240
people were just hungry for zombies. And so that

00:24:43.240 –> 00:24:45.859
that did really well. And I did like it. Um,

00:24:45.859 –> 00:24:49.279
I haven’t watched it in years. Is that the 2004

00:24:49.279 –> 00:24:52.880
one? Yes. Yeah. Cause the nineties did not have

00:24:52.880 –> 00:24:55.440
the glut of zombies that the eighties did. So

00:24:55.440 –> 00:24:58.420
there was like, we were deprived. Um, and he

00:24:58.420 –> 00:25:02.440
did end, um, what’s James gun was the writer

00:25:02.440 –> 00:25:05.980
on that, which probably helped. Um, the other

00:25:05.980 –> 00:25:09.200
Zack Snyder movies, I, I don’t think I was as

00:25:09.200 –> 00:25:12.900
into. that I’ve seen. I’m not a huge fan personally,

00:25:12.900 –> 00:25:14.779
particularly. I agree with what you’re saying.

00:25:14.960 –> 00:25:19.539
I think it’s sort of like bringing a butcher

00:25:19.539 –> 00:25:22.279
knife to a surgery where you need a scalpel kind

00:25:22.279 –> 00:25:24.720
of thing. Right, right. That makes perfect sense.

00:25:25.240 –> 00:25:27.240
But I mean, you don’t know until it comes out

00:25:27.240 –> 00:25:31.519
if you see it, but I will also say the plot of

00:25:31.519 –> 00:25:33.740
Escape from New York is to save the president.

00:25:34.440 –> 00:25:36.380
And given who’s sitting in office, do people

00:25:36.380 –> 00:25:39.079
really want to see? Well, I’ve just got to be

00:25:39.079 –> 00:25:40.460
the imaginary president. I mean, they’re not

00:25:40.460 –> 00:25:42.640
going to put Chopin there. Yeah, but it’s just

00:25:42.640 –> 00:25:45.980
like kind of wild. Read the room of reality.

00:25:46.160 –> 00:25:49.359
I don’t know. I feel like every John Carpenter

00:25:49.359 –> 00:25:52.220
movie or all the popular ones are going to be

00:25:52.220 –> 00:25:55.099
remade at some point, like a few. Right. Which

00:25:55.099 –> 00:25:57.619
is. If you had to give it a thumbs up or a thumbs

00:25:57.619 –> 00:26:00.509
down for this decision, what would it be? I would

00:26:00.509 –> 00:26:03.549
give it a will see. I mean, I’m not so sideways.

00:26:03.549 –> 00:26:05.910
You’re like, yeah, I don’t I don’t want it to

00:26:05.910 –> 00:26:07.890
happen, but if it’s gonna happen, it’s gonna

00:26:07.890 –> 00:26:10.869
happen and You know, I think some people will

00:26:10.869 –> 00:26:13.029
see things just have the satisfaction to be like

00:26:13.029 –> 00:26:17.970
see fuck that thing, right? I Remakes are gonna

00:26:17.970 –> 00:26:20.190
keep happening. I don’t think we’re ever gonna

00:26:20.190 –> 00:26:24.289
that’s ever gonna stop Okay, let’s get into the

00:26:24.289 –> 00:26:29.009
upcoming releases for this weekend, June 12th

00:26:28.700 –> 00:26:31.980
And the big one, which everyone’s probably already

00:26:31.980 –> 00:26:35.180
aware of, is Disclosure Day. And that’s written

00:26:35.180 –> 00:26:40.079
by David Kep and Steven Spielberg, and directed

00:26:40.079 –> 00:26:42.960
by Steven Spielberg. And it stars Emily Blunt,

00:26:43.140 –> 00:26:45.380
Josh O ‘Connor, and Colin Firth, some people

00:26:45.380 –> 00:26:47.299
that, you know, you’ve never heard of before.

00:26:48.460 –> 00:26:53.240
Just kidding. So, and you know, the… There’s

00:26:53.240 –> 00:26:54.880
synopsises and trailers out there so you can

00:26:54.880 –> 00:26:56.539
go check it out yourself. We’ll put a trailer

00:26:56.539 –> 00:26:59.740
on the show notes, but I really liked what they

00:26:59.740 –> 00:27:01.980
wrote on the IMDB page in the synopsis section,

00:27:02.039 –> 00:27:04.559
which was, if you found out you weren’t alone,

00:27:04.920 –> 00:27:08.200
if someone showed you, proved it to you, would

00:27:08.200 –> 00:27:11.720
that frighten you? Really interesting, simple

00:27:11.720 –> 00:27:14.119
question for a synopsis. That was really cool.

00:27:15.099 –> 00:27:19.519
So that’s Disclosure Day. And then we also, that

00:27:19.519 –> 00:27:21.900
weekend, there’s a film called Time of Death.

00:27:22.119 –> 00:27:24.839
That’s coming out, which was written by Jason

00:27:24.839 –> 00:27:29.940
Rosen. Sorry. I’m screwing up left and right

00:27:29.940 –> 00:27:33.960
today. Uh, I meant to ask you, um, Peter, do

00:27:33.960 –> 00:27:35.960
you have any interest in seeing disclosure day?

00:27:36.019 –> 00:27:39.519
You got to check that out. I’m curious. I think

00:27:39.519 –> 00:27:42.799
the last Steven Spielberg movie I’ve seen was

00:27:42.799 –> 00:27:46.920
actually war of the worlds. Um, he, his earlier

00:27:46.920 –> 00:27:49.740
work, I think spoke to me more than like the

00:27:49.740 –> 00:27:53.660
stuffy. Has done isn’t disclosure day also a

00:27:53.660 –> 00:27:55.700
documentary kind of about the same thing isn’t

00:27:55.700 –> 00:27:58.240
there something? There is a documentary called

00:27:58.240 –> 00:27:59.900
disclosure disclosure. That’s what that’s what

00:27:59.900 –> 00:28:02.420
that’s about disclosing. You know, it’s like

00:28:02.420 –> 00:28:06.539
Just the government disclosing UFO files or something.

00:28:06.660 –> 00:28:08.319
I haven’t seen that either. But yeah, I don’t

00:28:08.319 –> 00:28:10.359
think they’re related though I think if the subject

00:28:10.359 –> 00:28:12.339
matter is related. Well, I mean, yeah, yeah,

00:28:12.539 –> 00:28:15.259
but it’s not like Connected to that connected.

00:28:15.339 –> 00:28:18.559
Um, I when it comes to like aliens if they’re

00:28:18.559 –> 00:28:22.089
if they exist cool I… I don’t think I would

00:28:22.089 –> 00:28:24.069
be frightened unless they are trying to kill

00:28:24.069 –> 00:28:28.990
us or something. So, um… I mean, they always

00:28:28.990 –> 00:28:31.549
make these movies, but I think just now we’re

00:28:31.549 –> 00:28:33.750
kind of in the moment where we’re waiting for

00:28:33.750 –> 00:28:36.750
information to come out about, like, the state

00:28:36.750 –> 00:28:38.089
of all that stuff. It’s certainly in the headlines,

00:28:38.410 –> 00:28:40.970
for sure. Yeah, so that’s why I’m like… The

00:28:40.970 –> 00:28:43.750
timing is ideal, but it’s also kind of odd to

00:28:43.750 –> 00:28:46.549
me. Right. Because it’s like, wait till it comes

00:28:46.549 –> 00:28:48.309
out and then you can make a movie about it, but…

00:28:48.430 –> 00:28:50.470
Well, you know, it’s interesting is, I mean,

00:28:50.529 –> 00:28:52.309
they, they’ve been, there was like another big

00:28:52.309 –> 00:28:55.369
drop of UFO related files like three years ago.

00:28:56.029 –> 00:28:59.410
Um, and there’s been like a lot of like talk

00:28:59.410 –> 00:29:02.049
about this in the UFO world for a while. So it’s,

00:29:02.150 –> 00:29:04.210
I mean, I, I don’t know that there’s any connection

00:29:04.210 –> 00:29:07.329
between the, the actual government releasing

00:29:07.329 –> 00:29:09.410
information and him making this project. I think

00:29:09.410 –> 00:29:11.329
maybe that’s just a coincidence, but. Right.

00:29:11.430 –> 00:29:13.910
But it is great timing for him. You know, I mean,

00:29:13.910 –> 00:29:15.950
like in terms of the, uh, the attention that

00:29:15.950 –> 00:29:18.420
it brings to the project, but apparently. those

00:29:18.420 –> 00:29:20.900
who have seen it so far thinks it’s one of his

00:29:20.900 –> 00:29:25.900
best films since you know the 90s and uh you

00:29:25.900 –> 00:29:28.720
know like you said how people you know feel like

00:29:28.720 –> 00:29:30.059
he’s maybe falling off a little particularly

00:29:30.059 –> 00:29:32.819
when it comes to his like you know standard sci

00:29:32.819 –> 00:29:35.680
-fi et kind of affair this is kind of a return

00:29:35.680 –> 00:29:39.099
to form for him in that so that’s exciting the

00:29:39.099 –> 00:29:43.140
trailer does look interesting yeah i’m i’m curious

00:29:43.140 –> 00:29:45.720
but i’m not i’m not like it doesn’t feel like

00:29:45.720 –> 00:29:49.019
a must -see for me Totally. So we’ll, we’ll put

00:29:49.019 –> 00:29:51.740
the trailer for both of those on the show notes.

00:29:52.140 –> 00:29:54.500
And then since we’re recording bi -weekly, we’re

00:29:54.500 –> 00:29:57.420
also going to talk about the releases of the

00:29:57.420 –> 00:30:02.859
week of June 19th. And the big one, I think is

00:30:02.859 –> 00:30:04.539
probably going to be the death of Robin Hood

00:30:04.539 –> 00:30:08.019
on that weekend. And this is a bit more of a

00:30:08.019 –> 00:30:12.460
fantasy and like a drama fantasy even. It’s writer

00:30:12.460 –> 00:30:16.039
director, Michael Sarnowski, who did. pig and

00:30:16.039 –> 00:30:18.259
a quiet place day one, which was the quiet place

00:30:18.259 –> 00:30:21.700
prequel. And so that had me, my curiosity peak,

00:30:21.920 –> 00:30:24.839
but I’ve, you know, been tracking this project

00:30:24.839 –> 00:30:28.140
for a few months and it looks actually really

00:30:28.140 –> 00:30:30.440
good. Like they did a really good job, uh, because

00:30:30.440 –> 00:30:32.700
it’s going to star Hugh Jackman, Jodie Comer,

00:30:32.900 –> 00:30:35.859
Bill Skarsgard, who’s amazing. And the synopsis

00:30:35.859 –> 00:30:38.420
is that grappling with his past after a life

00:30:38.420 –> 00:30:40.680
of crime and murder, Robin Hood finds himself

00:30:40.680 –> 00:30:42.599
gravely injured after a battle he thought would

00:30:42.599 –> 00:30:44.940
be his last. And in the hands of a mysterious

00:30:44.940 –> 00:30:47.740
woman, he’s offered a chance at salvation. So

00:30:47.740 –> 00:30:51.240
it’s an interesting take, I guess, on the Robin

00:30:51.240 –> 00:30:55.460
Hood myth. Right. It’s like Robin Hood as an

00:30:55.460 –> 00:30:57.839
old man and kind of positioned more as like this

00:30:57.839 –> 00:31:00.599
like criminal robber, robber baron kind of guy.

00:31:01.140 –> 00:31:03.420
Right. Yeah. What do you, what do you think?

00:31:03.700 –> 00:31:06.779
No, I’m, I’m curious. I dig Robin Hood movies

00:31:06.779 –> 00:31:10.200
and kind of a edgier, darker take on that. It

00:31:10.200 –> 00:31:13.420
seems fascinating. The trailer that dropped a

00:31:13.420 –> 00:31:15.720
couple months ago. I thought looked great. Yeah,

00:31:15.720 –> 00:31:19.700
like cinematic the way You know that really spoke

00:31:19.700 –> 00:31:22.759
to me. Yeah, I agree. I agree I couldn’t I could

00:31:22.759 –> 00:31:25.380
not decipher what the plot was from watching

00:31:25.380 –> 00:31:28.500
that but like yeah, this this is has a right

00:31:28.500 –> 00:31:31.779
tone that I’m drawn to yeah, I’m gonna check

00:31:31.779 –> 00:31:36.000
it out for sure we also got a film called Leviticus

00:31:36.000 –> 00:31:39.660
coming out and this I thought was worth mentioning

00:31:39.660 –> 00:31:43.460
because it’s basically it’s an Aussie or Australian

00:31:43.460 –> 00:31:50.279
gay horror romance and that’s like a weird like

00:31:50.279 –> 00:31:52.160
micro genre that you’ve probably never thought

00:31:52.160 –> 00:31:56.619
about but uh it’s a writer -director Adrian Chiarella

00:31:56.619 –> 00:32:00.599
and it stars Joe Bird, Stacy Claussen, and Jeremy

00:32:00.599 –> 00:32:03.660
Blewett who I believe are all relative unknowns.

00:32:04.380 –> 00:32:07.049
The synopsis is that Two teenage boys must escape

00:32:07.049 –> 00:32:09.690
a violent entity that takes the form of the person

00:32:09.690 –> 00:32:13.809
they desire most each other. And it seemed like

00:32:13.809 –> 00:32:16.750
it has a really cool tone. I’m just kind of curious

00:32:16.750 –> 00:32:20.490
to check out a indie Aussie horror. Yeah. I thought

00:32:20.490 –> 00:32:22.630
it looked cool. I saw the trailer a couple of

00:32:22.630 –> 00:32:27.410
weeks ago. One of the scripts that I wrote is

00:32:27.410 –> 00:32:30.490
kind of dealing with something similar. Their

00:32:30.490 –> 00:32:32.869
twist on it I thought was pretty fascinating.

00:32:33.909 –> 00:32:37.750
It also has Nicholas Hope in it who played Bad

00:32:37.750 –> 00:32:40.930
Boy Bubby, one of my favorite movies. So I was

00:32:40.930 –> 00:32:44.269
like, hell yeah, he’s in that. And yeah, the

00:32:44.269 –> 00:32:47.630
trailer has a good mood to it and, you know,

00:32:47.730 –> 00:32:50.109
doesn’t reveal too much. So I think it looks

00:32:50.109 –> 00:32:53.569
cool and I’m very curious. Yeah. And same with

00:32:53.569 –> 00:32:55.470
this last film I want to talk about, which is

00:32:55.470 –> 00:32:58.450
coming out that weekend, June 19th, Rose of Nevada.

00:32:59.549 –> 00:33:01.390
And have you heard anything about this one yet?

00:33:01.390 –> 00:33:03.680
I don’t think so. Yeah, it was totally under

00:33:03.680 –> 00:33:08.099
my radar, but it looks really cool. It’s seemingly

00:33:08.099 –> 00:33:12.779
shot all in 16 millimeter, very retro vibe, like

00:33:12.779 –> 00:33:16.099
cinematographically speaking. Like it feels like

00:33:16.099 –> 00:33:18.680
a seventies or eighties horror movie. Right.

00:33:19.259 –> 00:33:22.700
But with some modern sensibility about it. It’s

00:33:22.700 –> 00:33:27.359
like a very cerebral kind of psychological horror.

00:33:27.950 –> 00:33:30.710
And it’s writer -director Mark Jenkin, and it

00:33:30.710 –> 00:33:34.430
stars George McKay from 1917, Captain Fantastic

00:33:34.430 –> 00:33:37.869
among others, and Caleb Turner from Green Room.

00:33:38.309 –> 00:33:40.130
Oh, there you go. Yeah, maybe I have heard of

00:33:40.130 –> 00:33:43.349
this, but get going. It looks really cool. The

00:33:43.349 –> 00:33:46.230
synopsis is that a mysterious boat returns to

00:33:46.230 –> 00:33:49.349
a village 30 years after vanishing. Two men join

00:33:49.349 –> 00:33:51.789
its crew, hoping for a better fortune. And after

00:33:51.789 –> 00:33:53.650
one voyage, they find themselves transported

00:33:53.650 –> 00:33:56.690
back in time, mistaken for the original crew.

00:33:57.309 –> 00:34:00.250
And it’s kind of like this weird trading places,

00:34:00.490 –> 00:34:04.490
time warp thing where, uh, based on the trailer,

00:34:04.769 –> 00:34:07.430
which we’ll also have in the show notes, you

00:34:07.430 –> 00:34:10.829
know, they, they end up back in the seventies

00:34:10.829 –> 00:34:14.630
or whatever period this boat left from and the

00:34:14.630 –> 00:34:16.250
people just think they’re them. So they kind

00:34:16.250 –> 00:34:20.349
of inherit a life and, uh, but the tone of it,

00:34:20.489 –> 00:34:23.090
everything about it looks really, really interesting.

00:34:23.280 –> 00:34:25.760
That’s, that’s cool. There’s, there’s an episode

00:34:25.760 –> 00:34:28.079
of Tales from the Dark Side, I think called The

00:34:28.079 –> 00:34:30.639
Apprentice, that I thought was scary as a kid

00:34:30.639 –> 00:34:33.539
where this, this girl was in some like museum

00:34:33.539 –> 00:34:37.199
and she travels back to like a puritanical time.

00:34:37.599 –> 00:34:40.679
And it’s just awful. So like the, the idea, and

00:34:40.679 –> 00:34:43.760
she’s got to get back, right? So the idea where

00:34:43.760 –> 00:34:46.039
someone time travels to another place and it’s

00:34:46.039 –> 00:34:49.980
more cynical and yeah, is not ideal is, is kind

00:34:49.980 –> 00:34:51.889
of. Fascinating. I don’t know if that’s exactly

00:34:51.889 –> 00:34:54.190
what this is, but it just made me. Yeah. Well,

00:34:54.190 –> 00:34:57.190
I don’t either. Cause the trailer leaves a lot

00:34:57.190 –> 00:35:01.650
to, uh, leaves a lot of mystery. So I’m curious

00:35:01.650 –> 00:35:06.090
to check it out. As they should. All right. Well,

00:35:06.110 –> 00:35:09.989
we’re going to transition now into the main interview

00:35:09.989 –> 00:35:13.570
of the day. Um, Peter, do you want to tee us

00:35:13.570 –> 00:35:14.989
up with a little bit with who we’re going to

00:35:14.989 –> 00:35:19.789
talk with? Sure. So our guest is. Paul Lewis,

00:35:20.030 –> 00:35:22.750
and he is based out of Auckland, New Zealand.

00:35:23.309 –> 00:35:27.050
And he is kind of a guy who does a lot of creative

00:35:27.050 –> 00:35:30.829
things. He, uh, he was a singer in operas. He

00:35:30.829 –> 00:35:34.989
was an actor and he really liked making puppets

00:35:34.989 –> 00:35:37.829
and learned how to do that and puppeteer them.

00:35:38.210 –> 00:35:42.510
And he ended up getting the shot to do that on

00:35:42.510 –> 00:35:45.550
a professional level. And he, so he went on to

00:35:45.550 –> 00:35:48.679
be a puppeteer in the movie, Megan. The rule

00:35:48.679 –> 00:35:53.099
of Jenny Penn Minecraft among others. That’s

00:35:53.099 –> 00:35:57.199
right. So here we go. Let’s Jump into our conversation

00:35:57.199 –> 00:36:02.179
with Paul Lewis Hey guys, so we have a very special

00:36:02.179 –> 00:36:04.900
guest as you can see we have Paul Lewis He is

00:36:04.900 –> 00:36:07.519
a puppeteer and a fabricator. He’s worked on

00:36:07.519 –> 00:36:11.239
some very cool projects You may not realize like

00:36:11.239 –> 00:36:14.679
Megan the rule of Jenny Penn and he’s got a couple

00:36:15.519 –> 00:36:18.760
irons in the fire with upcoming Evil Dead projects

00:36:18.760 –> 00:36:21.860
that unfortunately we can’t talk about, but just

00:36:21.860 –> 00:36:24.219
to give you a scope of things he does. So thank

00:36:24.219 –> 00:36:27.139
you, Paul, for joining us. And it’s also worth

00:36:27.139 –> 00:36:30.460
mentioning he is in New Zealand. So right now

00:36:30.460 –> 00:36:32.719
where Christopher and I are, it’s a little after

00:36:32.719 –> 00:36:35.659
noon, but it’s on a Sunday and it’s Monday where

00:36:35.659 –> 00:36:39.119
he is at seven or a little after 7 a .m. So he

00:36:39.119 –> 00:36:42.639
is a trooper for getting up early to talk with

00:36:42.639 –> 00:36:45.710
us. Thank you, Paul. My pleasure. Yeah. Thanks

00:36:45.710 –> 00:36:48.489
for coming. Yeah. Great. Uh, great to be here.

00:36:49.150 –> 00:36:52.469
Well, I guess Paul, so the questions I have for

00:36:52.469 –> 00:36:57.010
you, um, I guess you were an actor before you

00:36:57.010 –> 00:37:00.050
became a puppeteer, right? Yeah. Great. Yeah.

00:37:00.289 –> 00:37:03.510
How, how did you make that transition? And like,

00:37:03.550 –> 00:37:06.969
were you always interested in becoming a puppeteer?

00:37:07.269 –> 00:37:11.769
Yeah. Um, I was born in 1969. Um, yeah, it was,

00:37:11.769 –> 00:37:15.900
it was, uh, It was something that I was into

00:37:15.900 –> 00:37:19.719
as a child. When I was a kid, I wanted to be

00:37:19.719 –> 00:37:22.780
a cartoonist and a comic book artist. So I was

00:37:22.780 –> 00:37:25.400
I was crazy about drawing and I spent hours and

00:37:25.400 –> 00:37:28.579
hours drawing. And Sesame Street had come out

00:37:28.579 –> 00:37:32.940
the year I was born, 1969. And but while I paid

00:37:32.940 –> 00:37:36.619
attention to the puppets, I didn’t sort of like

00:37:36.619 –> 00:37:38.860
feel any sort of desire to make those puppets.

00:37:39.199 –> 00:37:42.219
But it wasn’t until 1976 when The Muppet Show

00:37:42.219 –> 00:37:44.840
went to air. And there’s this character, Uncle

00:37:44.840 –> 00:37:46.920
Deadly, who appears in the first season. He’s

00:37:46.920 –> 00:37:50.179
the Phantom of the Theatre. And that character,

00:37:50.420 –> 00:37:51.900
because he was a monster and I was starting to

00:37:51.900 –> 00:37:56.539
get into monsters, loved creatures. For some

00:37:56.539 –> 00:37:58.800
reason, he just kind of twigged with me and just

00:37:58.800 –> 00:38:02.519
made me sort of be like, I’d love to make that

00:38:02.519 –> 00:38:05.539
character. So that’s when I kind of got into

00:38:05.539 –> 00:38:07.760
it. And I had an aunt who taught me how to sew

00:38:07.760 –> 00:38:13.800
and how to create patterns and convert soft toy

00:38:13.800 –> 00:38:15.699
patterns into puppets. And I just went from there

00:38:15.699 –> 00:38:18.159
and just was off running and making my own stuff.

00:38:19.280 –> 00:38:23.260
And so I did that for, you know, throughout my

00:38:23.260 –> 00:38:25.599
childhood and into my teenage years and moved

00:38:25.599 –> 00:38:28.679
on to sculpting and making casting things of

00:38:28.679 –> 00:38:34.179
latex rubber, all just very beginner stuff, never

00:38:34.179 –> 00:38:36.400
really going anywhere with it, never, never putting

00:38:36.400 –> 00:38:39.159
on shows, never doing anything with the puppets.

00:38:40.190 –> 00:38:43.210
But I taught myself to puppeteer. And then I

00:38:43.210 –> 00:38:46.670
did a school show, a school production, sorry,

00:38:46.989 –> 00:38:50.269
of Bugsy Malone. Ever seen Bugsy Malone, the

00:38:50.269 –> 00:38:53.050
movie? No. Jodie Foster. Yeah, back from the

00:38:53.050 –> 00:38:56.449
70s. It was written by Paul Williams. And it’s

00:38:56.449 –> 00:38:59.650
all these kids playing gangsters in the 30s.

00:39:00.230 –> 00:39:03.550
And so Bugsy was kind of like… a favorite of

00:39:03.550 –> 00:39:05.949
school, you know, productions, they would do

00:39:05.949 –> 00:39:08.369
Bugsy Malone as their musical. So I did that.

00:39:08.369 –> 00:39:12.190
I got cast in that and discovered I could sing

00:39:12.190 –> 00:39:15.889
and just switched obsessions, just went from

00:39:15.889 –> 00:39:19.389
like puppets and puppeteering and into pursuing

00:39:19.389 –> 00:39:23.530
singing and acting. And so, yeah, a few years

00:39:23.530 –> 00:39:25.590
later in my early 20s, my first professional

00:39:25.590 –> 00:39:28.789
gig was with New Zealand Opera in the chorus

00:39:28.789 –> 00:39:33.590
of Elabo M. And then went on from there to do

00:39:33.590 –> 00:39:35.530
a bunch of operas with them and then went into

00:39:35.530 –> 00:39:39.030
musical theatre. And yes, musical theatre was

00:39:39.030 –> 00:39:42.849
what I pursued mostly. And it wasn’t until my

00:39:42.849 –> 00:39:46.590
40s that puppetry came background. Yeah. Wow.

00:39:46.849 –> 00:39:49.030
So you’re a man of many talents. That’s awesome.

00:39:49.730 –> 00:39:52.130
It’s interesting how that happens. That’s kind

00:39:52.130 –> 00:39:54.510
of how my career went too. I was really into

00:39:54.510 –> 00:39:58.789
filmmaking in high school and I looked initially

00:39:58.789 –> 00:40:02.889
at film schools for college. And then I, both

00:40:02.889 –> 00:40:04.389
Peter and I used to play in punk rock bands.

00:40:04.449 –> 00:40:06.630
So I went and did that for a while. And then

00:40:06.630 –> 00:40:08.789
I did a bunch of other things like programming

00:40:08.789 –> 00:40:11.309
and politics. And then, you know, in my thirties,

00:40:11.329 –> 00:40:14.489
I came back around to filmmaking. And so I’ve

00:40:14.489 –> 00:40:16.110
been doing that for the last 15 years. But, but

00:40:16.110 –> 00:40:18.190
yeah, it’s interesting how you kind of set the

00:40:18.190 –> 00:40:22.389
stage in your youth and then, you know, you kind

00:40:22.389 –> 00:40:23.869
of come home to it. It’s kind of like when you

00:40:23.869 –> 00:40:25.849
leave your hometown for a while and then, but

00:40:25.849 –> 00:40:29.420
you kind of move back home. Yeah. 100%. Yeah,

00:40:29.420 –> 00:40:31.300
because I mean, I’d gone to drama school. I’d

00:40:31.300 –> 00:40:34.659
graduated. I was working and and things were

00:40:34.659 –> 00:40:36.679
going fine, but I was very much a jobbing actor.

00:40:36.840 –> 00:40:39.199
You know, I was mixing it up with like core center

00:40:39.199 –> 00:40:42.539
work and and so on. But then this opportunity

00:40:42.539 –> 00:40:45.059
came to audition for this place called World

00:40:45.059 –> 00:40:47.300
Studios and that was set up in West Auckland.

00:40:47.639 –> 00:40:50.139
And it was the idea was this guy who had made

00:40:50.139 –> 00:40:54.619
his fortune in IT wanted to create. a theatre

00:40:54.619 –> 00:40:57.500
for kids and families to go and see puppet shows.

00:40:57.940 –> 00:41:00.079
And he had these puppets designed and built.

00:41:01.460 –> 00:41:02.900
They were designed here, but they were built

00:41:02.900 –> 00:41:06.679
in New York. And all this money was spent on

00:41:06.679 –> 00:41:08.699
this theatre. He had weather artists in creating

00:41:08.699 –> 00:41:13.639
this incredible theatre scenery. And so he cast

00:41:13.639 –> 00:41:19.579
a bunch of locals as puppeteers and And then

00:41:19.579 –> 00:41:21.579
it all kind of fell apart for a bit. And then

00:41:21.579 –> 00:41:23.380
a year later, they all regrouped. And one of

00:41:23.380 –> 00:41:25.920
my friends was one of those cast members. And

00:41:25.920 –> 00:41:28.099
she said, hey, I remember you saying that, you

00:41:28.099 –> 00:41:29.599
know, you used to do puppets and stuff. You should

00:41:29.599 –> 00:41:31.780
totally audition if they have auditions again.

00:41:32.460 –> 00:41:34.360
She said, I think it’s going to be amazing. They’ve

00:41:34.360 –> 00:41:38.460
got Peter Linz from the Muppets being the mentor

00:41:38.460 –> 00:41:40.579
for everybody. So they brought him down here

00:41:40.579 –> 00:41:44.719
to do that. And so when they held auditions again.

00:41:44.969 –> 00:41:47.409
I thought, oh, I’ll go for that. So I built a

00:41:47.409 –> 00:41:49.530
puppet for the first time in 30 years. You know,

00:41:49.530 –> 00:41:51.570
I had to sort of like pop onto YouTube and find

00:41:51.570 –> 00:41:53.610
out how puppets are professionally made compared

00:41:53.610 –> 00:41:56.989
to what I did as a kid. So I built this puppet,

00:41:57.150 –> 00:42:00.250
took it along, auditioned, used it to rehearse,

00:42:00.389 –> 00:42:02.550
went and auditioned, said, hey, I can build puppets

00:42:02.550 –> 00:42:04.570
too. It’s been a while, but I do build puppets.

00:42:05.170 –> 00:42:08.489
And I got cast and it was a full time gig. I

00:42:08.489 –> 00:42:11.010
actually got a salary doing that job for like,

00:42:11.110 –> 00:42:14.110
and then spent three years. puppeteering, building

00:42:14.110 –> 00:42:16.550
puppets that ended up in the shows and we did

00:42:16.550 –> 00:42:21.230
two TV shows and it was the producer of the first

00:42:21.230 –> 00:42:25.150
TV show that we did who kickstarted my career

00:42:25.150 –> 00:42:27.570
outside of WoW because she was the producer for

00:42:27.570 –> 00:42:30.750
Sweet Tooth and so she brought me on for Sweet

00:42:30.750 –> 00:42:34.429
Tooth and it went from there. Yeah. Wow. Yeah,

00:42:34.449 –> 00:42:37.369
it was just like to and I was on all three seasons

00:42:37.369 –> 00:42:42.360
of Sweet Tooth for full time and so That was

00:42:42.360 –> 00:42:46.860
just an amazing gig to get. Yeah. Cool. That’s

00:42:46.860 –> 00:42:51.260
really cool. When did, it’s called Woe Studios,

00:42:51.679 –> 00:42:55.260
right? Yeah. Roughly when did that come to fruition?

00:42:55.820 –> 00:42:59.199
How long has that been around? It came to fruition

00:42:59.199 –> 00:43:03.360
in 2016. So 10 years, it’s almost 10 years ago

00:43:03.360 –> 00:43:07.079
since I auditioned for it. And so I was 46 at

00:43:07.079 –> 00:43:11.420
the time and It now no longer exists. Unfortunately,

00:43:11.599 –> 00:43:14.099
there were sort of compounding issues with it.

00:43:14.099 –> 00:43:17.099
I mean, it did struggle to make money. It’s children’s

00:43:17.099 –> 00:43:19.340
theatre. It was expensive children’s theatre

00:43:19.340 –> 00:43:23.980
to maintain and run. They did set it up as a

00:43:23.980 –> 00:43:26.079
film studio, a mini film studio as well. They

00:43:26.079 –> 00:43:30.670
tried to encourage like. production companies

00:43:30.670 –> 00:43:32.150
that would shoot commercials to go and shoot

00:43:32.150 –> 00:43:34.429
there because they had a giant green screen room

00:43:34.429 –> 00:43:36.750
and a motion control camera. He actually, the

00:43:36.750 –> 00:43:39.889
guy actually bought a motion control camera as

00:43:39.889 –> 00:43:42.030
part of a kit. It was just like, it’s a really

00:43:42.030 –> 00:43:44.690
expensive purchase. Yeah. And then COVID hit

00:43:44.690 –> 00:43:47.789
and really, I mean, cause the finances were struggling

00:43:47.789 –> 00:43:51.289
before COVID, but then COVID came along and we

00:43:51.289 –> 00:43:53.889
all lost our jobs within a few months. I mean,

00:43:53.949 –> 00:43:56.619
they stayed in. for a while. They stayed, they

00:43:56.619 –> 00:43:58.159
kept us together for a while and we would do,

00:43:58.340 –> 00:44:01.119
we would shoot stuff with our characters at home.

00:44:01.639 –> 00:44:03.619
But yeah, it just became clear it wasn’t going

00:44:03.619 –> 00:44:06.659
to work. Yeah. Totally. We actually have something

00:44:06.659 –> 00:44:10.340
similar in my neighborhood, like not even a mile

00:44:10.340 –> 00:44:12.679
from me. It’s called Bob, the Bob Barker Marionette

00:44:12.679 –> 00:44:15.639
Theater. Yes. Which is a pretty legendary, you

00:44:15.639 –> 00:44:19.210
know, children’s theater and I know they have

00:44:19.210 –> 00:44:21.389
struggled from time to time, financially speaking

00:44:21.389 –> 00:44:22.789
as well, although they just bought the building

00:44:22.789 –> 00:44:24.510
they’re in, so it seems like they’re kind of

00:44:24.510 –> 00:44:27.789
a permanent fixture now. Amazing. Yeah, it’s

00:44:27.789 –> 00:44:32.170
real cool. That’s the Marionette Theatre, isn’t

00:44:32.170 –> 00:44:34.610
it? Yes, it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because when

00:44:34.610 –> 00:44:39.110
I worked on Minecraft, because I’ve worked on

00:44:39.110 –> 00:44:41.130
both Minecraft movies, but when I worked on the

00:44:41.130 –> 00:44:43.869
first Minecraft movie, because my character spent

00:44:43.869 –> 00:44:46.820
so much time with Jack Black, And there was one

00:44:46.820 –> 00:44:49.539
day when I was shooting at the studios and Jack’s

00:44:49.539 –> 00:44:52.019
family was there, his wife, Tanya and their kids.

00:44:52.820 –> 00:44:55.780
And his wife loves puppets, absolutely loves

00:44:55.780 –> 00:44:58.159
puppets. So when he introduced me to her and

00:44:58.159 –> 00:45:00.800
said, yeah, Paul’s our Dennis puppeteer and rara,

00:45:01.260 –> 00:45:05.019
she just wanted to chat. And she, the last thing

00:45:05.019 –> 00:45:07.840
she said to me before they departed the studio,

00:45:08.500 –> 00:45:11.699
she said, you have to go to the Bob Barker Puppet

00:45:11.699 –> 00:45:15.039
Theatre. She said, you’ll love it. Yeah. She’s

00:45:15.039 –> 00:45:19.420
a huge fan. That’s cool. When I was researching

00:45:19.420 –> 00:45:22.599
you and I was like, you have Woe Studio and this

00:45:22.599 –> 00:45:26.059
is New Zealand, it of course dawned on me the

00:45:26.059 –> 00:45:30.079
rise of Peter Jackson. I was just wondering if

00:45:30.079 –> 00:45:33.400
that kind of impacted New Zealand’s interest

00:45:33.400 –> 00:45:37.760
in filmmaking and all these different aspects

00:45:37.760 –> 00:45:41.300
of it. Did that seem like it was something in

00:45:41.300 –> 00:45:45.199
play? I mean, before Lord of the Rings, it certainly,

00:45:45.739 –> 00:45:47.920
you know, when I was growing up, the idea that

00:45:47.920 –> 00:45:49.760
something like a Minecraft movie would shoot

00:45:49.760 –> 00:45:53.619
in New Zealand just seemed ridiculously, you

00:45:53.619 –> 00:45:56.579
know, far -fetched. We just, we just felt so

00:45:56.579 –> 00:46:00.199
tiny as a country that, you know, why, why on

00:46:00.199 –> 00:46:03.219
earth would famous, you know, Hollywood productions

00:46:03.219 –> 00:46:06.460
come and shoot here? But that started to change

00:46:06.460 –> 00:46:10.099
and we had shows like Hercules and Xena in the

00:46:10.099 –> 00:46:14.150
early 90s that were You know, set up by Robert

00:46:14.150 –> 00:46:17.269
Tappet, Lucy Lawless’s husband and also producer

00:46:17.269 –> 00:46:20.949
of the Dead, Evil Dead films. Yeah. So that employed

00:46:20.949 –> 00:46:24.710
a lot of people, crews as well as, as actors,

00:46:24.710 –> 00:46:27.889
you know, for several years here. And then as

00:46:27.889 –> 00:46:30.650
Peter Jackson started to find success with like

00:46:30.650 –> 00:46:33.210
heavenly creatures, you know, and showing that.

00:46:33.280 –> 00:46:35.780
Uh, and also the frighteners things could be

00:46:35.780 –> 00:46:39.000
shot here and, and that New Zealand could substitute

00:46:39.000 –> 00:46:42.780
for American towns and cities and that we had

00:46:42.780 –> 00:46:46.860
the crew and the talent here to actually be part

00:46:46.860 –> 00:46:48.739
of, you know, to help bring these productions,

00:46:49.019 –> 00:46:51.800
put these productions on their feet and also

00:46:51.800 –> 00:46:55.800
ethereal, interesting nature that, uh, Oh yeah.

00:46:55.940 –> 00:46:58.039
There’s absolutely that aspect as well, which

00:46:58.039 –> 00:46:59.800
Lord of the Rings beautifully showed off, but

00:46:59.800 –> 00:47:04.659
also just, you know, um, exchange rate was favorable,

00:47:04.659 –> 00:47:09.340
you know, and it’s, it’s, it’s English speaking,

00:47:09.860 –> 00:47:11.920
English speaking. Yep. Yep. The crews are really

00:47:11.920 –> 00:47:14.559
hard work, like incredibly hard working. Everybody

00:47:14.559 –> 00:47:19.739
sort of really mucks in and yeah, it’s just a,

00:47:19.860 –> 00:47:22.139
it’s, it’s a very attractive place for producers

00:47:22.139 –> 00:47:26.559
to bring their shows. Speaking of Kiwi actors,

00:47:26.739 –> 00:47:29.059
I actually went to film school in Australia,

00:47:29.059 –> 00:47:30.940
as I mentioned to you before we started recording

00:47:30.940 –> 00:47:33.449
and one of the people at the film school with

00:47:33.449 –> 00:47:38.590
is the half -sister of Miranda from Lord of the

00:47:38.590 –> 00:47:41.909
Rings, Miranda, I forget her last name, but Gracie

00:47:41.909 –> 00:47:46.050
Otto is the woman I went to school with. So like,

00:47:46.369 –> 00:47:49.630
she played Eowon. Right, yeah, Miranda Otto.

00:47:50.110 –> 00:47:52.170
Yeah, so that was fun to talk to her about that.

00:47:52.670 –> 00:47:55.769
Yeah, their father, Barry Otto, is a famous Australian

00:47:55.769 –> 00:47:58.570
actor. Yeah, I got to meet him actually, yeah.

00:47:58.610 –> 00:48:02.610
Oh, right, yeah. Because he… He didn’t star

00:48:02.610 –> 00:48:05.730
in any of her student films, but he came to set.

00:48:07.170 –> 00:48:09.269
So I got to meet him once or twice. He was a

00:48:09.269 –> 00:48:12.420
nice guy. Amazing. Amazing. Yeah Lord of the

00:48:12.420 –> 00:48:15.460
Rings that all I was living in London. So when

00:48:15.460 –> 00:48:17.780
that started filming I I had already gone to

00:48:17.780 –> 00:48:21.219
love him to London to try and seek my fortune

00:48:21.219 –> 00:48:25.360
with my ex -wife on the West End stage Which

00:48:25.360 –> 00:48:28.960
was which was which was just like such yeah,

00:48:28.960 –> 00:48:30.519
that was yeah, it sounds like a whole podcast

00:48:30.519 –> 00:48:36.619
episode But yeah, yeah So yeah, that all happened

00:48:36.619 –> 00:48:39.139
while we were there so never had a chance to

00:48:39.139 –> 00:48:41.949
be part of it at all. Yeah. But I have friends,

00:48:41.949 –> 00:48:45.250
you know, who got bit parts or, or played orcs

00:48:45.250 –> 00:48:48.769
or, you know, so. Yeah. Sounded fun. I really

00:48:48.769 –> 00:48:52.230
wanted to be part of it. Well, it, it sounds

00:48:52.230 –> 00:48:55.909
like it all kind of worked out for you, um, with,

00:48:56.170 –> 00:48:58.710
you know, you have a very cool puppeteer career

00:48:58.710 –> 00:49:02.309
and I guess like teaching yourself how to do

00:49:02.309 –> 00:49:05.730
it. Did you find that that was like super natural

00:49:05.730 –> 00:49:08.570
given how excited and interested you were in

00:49:08.570 –> 00:49:12.670
it? Yeah, I guess, I mean, once I started to

00:49:12.670 –> 00:49:16.690
obsess, I just broke everything down. I just

00:49:16.690 –> 00:49:18.489
studied these things. And I mean, like, this

00:49:18.489 –> 00:49:21.269
is back before video recorders or any way of

00:49:21.269 –> 00:49:25.809
being able to, you know, I couldn’t just, because

00:49:25.809 –> 00:49:29.409
we didn’t get a video player until I was 16 in

00:49:29.409 –> 00:49:32.210
the middle of the 80s. And so, you know, there

00:49:32.210 –> 00:49:34.769
was no way to rewatch shows. So I would have

00:49:34.769 –> 00:49:36.909
to, like, be super focused as soon as the show

00:49:36.909 –> 00:49:40.420
came on. and then pay attention to, you know,

00:49:40.800 –> 00:49:45.239
how they would hold the character and like, you

00:49:45.239 –> 00:49:48.340
know, how they would pose it and so forth and

00:49:48.340 –> 00:49:51.079
how to do the lip sync and all this kind of stuff.

00:49:51.940 –> 00:49:55.380
And so, yeah, I was just laser focused and I

00:49:55.380 –> 00:49:57.960
would just try and study the puppets and try

00:49:57.960 –> 00:50:01.400
and figure out how they were built. I mean, it

00:50:01.400 –> 00:50:05.300
was tough. No books here. No books to show you

00:50:05.300 –> 00:50:07.619
how to do that stuff. All I could do was go to

00:50:07.619 –> 00:50:10.179
the library. I mean, with drawing, it was easier.

00:50:10.659 –> 00:50:11.880
There were, there were so many books on drawing,

00:50:11.920 –> 00:50:13.579
but when it came to puppets, there was nothing.

00:50:13.699 –> 00:50:17.119
There was how to make paper mache marionettes.

00:50:17.179 –> 00:50:19.480
Right. Nothing to show you how muppet style puppets

00:50:19.480 –> 00:50:23.900
were made. So it’s very new. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:50:23.900 –> 00:50:26.360
Yeah. Yeah. So it’s just like, it was just so

00:50:26.360 –> 00:50:28.619
much guesswork, but, um, yeah, some of the stuff

00:50:28.619 –> 00:50:32.559
came out well. Yeah. Well, given, given you know,

00:50:32.659 –> 00:50:35.320
you’ve created a career for yourself doing this.

00:50:36.159 –> 00:50:38.000
Do you still, I imagine you still have, there’s

00:50:38.000 –> 00:50:40.619
still challenges with, no matter what you’re

00:50:40.619 –> 00:50:43.679
doing, because every project is different. And

00:50:43.679 –> 00:50:47.059
if you’re doing something like horror, is it

00:50:47.059 –> 00:50:49.400
different than doing comedy or is it kind of

00:50:49.400 –> 00:50:51.699
the same thing, but just presented in a different

00:50:51.699 –> 00:50:55.920
way? Or is there like a distinction? It’s more

00:50:55.920 –> 00:51:00.719
fun doing the comedy. With, with that, that horror

00:51:00.719 –> 00:51:05.960
is also I mean, there are times where I wish

00:51:05.960 –> 00:51:08.059
I could be specific, like with the Evil Dead

00:51:08.059 –> 00:51:10.139
films, but on the two Evil Dead films, there

00:51:10.139 –> 00:51:13.639
were several times where I was like, this is

00:51:13.639 –> 00:51:18.519
so much fun. Megan had lots of fun moments as

00:51:18.519 –> 00:51:21.320
well, but also incredibly stressful moments.

00:51:22.059 –> 00:51:24.719
And there was one night on Megan where I wanted

00:51:24.719 –> 00:51:28.300
to quit. I felt like I was just doing the worst

00:51:28.300 –> 00:51:32.579
job and that it was all on me and that I was

00:51:32.579 –> 00:51:36.920
going to fail in the task. And what’s kind of

00:51:36.920 –> 00:51:41.280
frustrating, it was, that was a night when we

00:51:41.280 –> 00:51:43.699
were shooting the original ending to Megan, because

00:51:43.699 –> 00:51:46.719
the ending that you see in the film is not the

00:51:46.719 –> 00:51:49.900
original ending, nor the original concept for

00:51:49.900 –> 00:51:52.420
the ending. The ending was something else entirely.

00:51:52.559 –> 00:51:55.219
And in fact, if you pay attention in this behind

00:51:55.219 –> 00:51:58.289
the scenes features, of Megan, where they showed

00:51:58.289 –> 00:52:00.809
the making of, you can actually see hints of

00:52:00.809 –> 00:52:03.429
that original ending being shot. They just never

00:52:03.429 –> 00:52:06.610
talk about it as being like, this is what the

00:52:06.610 –> 00:52:09.630
original ending was. It just didn’t test well

00:52:09.630 –> 00:52:14.369
or something? It just didn’t really work. I mean,

00:52:14.489 –> 00:52:16.710
the original ending was… I think I can probably

00:52:16.710 –> 00:52:18.269
say if they’re showing footage in the behind

00:52:18.269 –> 00:52:20.550
the scenes, I think I can say what it was. But

00:52:20.550 –> 00:52:23.449
basically, so the ending is it is now you’ve

00:52:23.449 –> 00:52:30.090
got Megan and Alison Williams college built robot

00:52:30.090 –> 00:52:33.030
Bruce fighting. Fighting it out. Yeah. Yeah.

00:52:33.030 –> 00:52:36.210
Fighting it out in the original ending. She’s

00:52:36.210 –> 00:52:40.989
torn apart and he’s trashed, but she merges with

00:52:40.989 –> 00:52:45.719
him. So he is holding her by the neck. and carrying

00:52:45.719 –> 00:52:49.659
her around and she’s controlling him and so she

00:52:49.659 –> 00:52:54.219
becomes a hybrid of Bruce and and herself and

00:52:54.219 –> 00:52:57.579
it was that puppet hybrid that I really struggled

00:52:57.579 –> 00:53:00.880
with because it was extremely difficult because

00:53:00.880 –> 00:53:04.159
the movie didn’t have the budget to paint me

00:53:04.159 –> 00:53:07.440
out I was on set and having to hide myself I’m

00:53:07.440 –> 00:53:09.679
talking about for the physical puppetry All of

00:53:09.679 –> 00:53:11.659
her expressions, all of that was done by radio

00:53:11.659 –> 00:53:13.780
control. So there were four of us puppeteering

00:53:13.780 –> 00:53:17.639
her. There was Adrian Moreau, who’s created her.

00:53:18.300 –> 00:53:21.159
He was, you know, Adrian Moreau of Moreau FX.

00:53:21.579 –> 00:53:24.800
His wife Cathy, she was the lead puppeteer. And

00:53:24.800 –> 00:53:27.539
so between them, they were doing the facial expressions.

00:53:28.159 –> 00:53:32.260
And then we had Devin handling all the lip syncs,

00:53:32.300 –> 00:53:35.690
which was automated dialogue. So that was a very

00:53:35.690 –> 00:53:38.250
painstaking process for them. And I handled the

00:53:38.250 –> 00:53:40.269
physical puppetry, sometimes with an assistant,

00:53:40.389 –> 00:53:42.630
but most of the time by myself, but having to

00:53:42.630 –> 00:53:45.070
hide myself because I couldn’t be in a green

00:53:45.070 –> 00:53:47.170
screen suit and paint it out. There just wasn’t

00:53:47.170 –> 00:53:51.630
a budget. So are there like long poles and wires

00:53:51.630 –> 00:53:54.250
and stuff? Yeah. And so there are shots in that

00:53:54.250 –> 00:53:59.329
film where you’ll see her and I’m directly behind

00:53:59.329 –> 00:54:02.630
her out of view. And so if the camera just shifted

00:54:02.630 –> 00:54:05.469
this way a little bit you’d see me hiding behind

00:54:05.469 –> 00:54:09.530
her with Controlling her face of her head and

00:54:09.530 –> 00:54:13.909
her arms well, I watched it last night with this

00:54:13.909 –> 00:54:18.289
conversation in mind and I Didn’t notice I think

00:54:18.289 –> 00:54:21.170
it you guys pulled it off to great effect. I

00:54:21.170 –> 00:54:24.429
well I kind of I kind of sorry. Oh no go go go

00:54:24.429 –> 00:54:27.860
ahead Oh, I was going to say, but actually considering

00:54:27.860 –> 00:54:29.679
the, I mean, for the second film, they didn’t,

00:54:29.760 –> 00:54:31.639
I mean, I hustled to get on that film. I mean,

00:54:31.719 –> 00:54:34.400
I was, I constantly emailed Cathy and was just

00:54:34.400 –> 00:54:37.340
like, Hey, can I be on it? And she’s like, I

00:54:37.340 –> 00:54:39.239
don’t think we need you at this stage. But what

00:54:39.239 –> 00:54:41.260
she, what she didn’t say was that they actually

00:54:41.260 –> 00:54:43.340
created what they wanted for the first film,

00:54:43.840 –> 00:54:47.610
which was a fully animatronic Megan. Um, which

00:54:47.610 –> 00:54:51.090
was, uh, like sort of a whole body was animatronic

00:54:51.090 –> 00:54:54.230
and it was run by a guy on a laptop who created

00:54:54.230 –> 00:54:56.989
the software system. So they would program in

00:54:56.989 –> 00:54:59.550
all her moves and then just hit space bar and

00:54:59.550 –> 00:55:01.469
she’d be able to repeat them over and over and

00:55:01.469 –> 00:55:06.309
over again. And so there was a guy from New Zealand

00:55:06.309 –> 00:55:10.230
who was like a puppeteer and also an animatronic

00:55:10.230 –> 00:55:12.750
specialist. He sort of jumped in and did some.

00:55:14.000 –> 00:55:17.599
but he was in a suit and painted out for that

00:55:17.599 –> 00:55:22.800
one. But for the most part, she was fully animatronic.

00:55:23.460 –> 00:55:25.500
Yeah, I guess with the sequels, that’s when they

00:55:25.500 –> 00:55:27.480
get the money that they wanted for the first

00:55:27.480 –> 00:55:31.760
one, right? Yeah, yeah. But I would have to guess

00:55:31.760 –> 00:55:34.920
for the original one that you were part of, Was

00:55:34.920 –> 00:55:37.480
there, there must have been different versions

00:55:37.480 –> 00:55:39.820
of her. Were there like different sizes and all

00:55:39.820 –> 00:55:41.320
sorts of things like that, that you wouldn’t

00:55:41.320 –> 00:55:45.039
expect or? No, there weren’t different sizes.

00:55:45.300 –> 00:55:47.639
There were definitely different versions. So

00:55:47.639 –> 00:55:51.099
there were multiple Megan’s sort of lying around

00:55:51.099 –> 00:55:55.119
in various states. So the lead animatronic though,

00:55:55.420 –> 00:55:57.940
there was just one, but there would be different

00:55:57.940 –> 00:56:04.239
insert arms and There were, there was the destroyed

00:56:04.239 –> 00:56:06.539
version of Megan. There was a stunt version of

00:56:06.539 –> 00:56:14.579
Megan. Um, it was, um, yeah, it was the, the

00:56:14.579 –> 00:56:18.840
head was the most expensive part of her. So like

00:56:18.840 –> 00:56:21.500
20 servos and so inside that head, that was the

00:56:21.500 –> 00:56:23.980
only thing that was fully automated of when I

00:56:23.980 –> 00:56:26.179
automated it was a full animatronic. The rest

00:56:26.179 –> 00:56:28.699
of her was basically a Bunraku puppet, just rods.

00:56:29.679 –> 00:56:33.280
And I was going to ask you about the scenes like

00:56:33.280 –> 00:56:35.880
in the hallway where she does the dance. Yeah.

00:56:36.679 –> 00:56:41.219
Was that a person doing that? That was Amy Donald.

00:56:41.539 –> 00:56:45.599
Yeah. Yeah. So Amy Donald, who I’ve worked with

00:56:45.599 –> 00:56:48.820
numerous times on all the sweet tooths, we worked

00:56:48.820 –> 00:56:53.460
together on Megan. So I’ve known her since she

00:56:53.460 –> 00:56:56.239
was 10 years old and she’s just one. one of the

00:56:56.239 –> 00:56:58.599
best humans on the planet. She’s just delightful.

00:56:58.960 –> 00:57:03.559
And she’s now like 16 years old and she’s like

00:57:03.559 –> 00:57:06.780
in high school. And it’s just kind of crazy to

00:57:06.780 –> 00:57:08.780
think about how far she’s come. She was like

00:57:08.780 –> 00:57:12.659
a champion dancer before Megan. Oh, wow. Competing

00:57:12.659 –> 00:57:16.079
worldwide. Yeah, I’m like friends with the family

00:57:16.079 –> 00:57:19.119
and even spent a Christmas with them a couple

00:57:19.119 –> 00:57:24.440
of years ago. But like she Uh, she did all the

00:57:24.440 –> 00:57:26.780
full body movement stuff that you see. So anytime

00:57:26.780 –> 00:57:33.250
you see Megan with legs, that’s Amy. Wow. Very

00:57:33.250 –> 00:57:35.829
cool. Very cool, but but we also mixed it up

00:57:35.829 –> 00:57:39.230
because like sometimes It was the puppet but

00:57:39.230 –> 00:57:41.769
Amy’s hand so like kind of doing like cookie

00:57:41.769 –> 00:57:43.789
monster with the live head, you know live hand

00:57:43.789 –> 00:57:46.630
public So the Amy’s hand through a sleeve and

00:57:46.630 –> 00:57:48.329
she would be picking something up and looking

00:57:48.329 –> 00:57:50.670
at it or whatever And I would be like moving

00:57:50.670 –> 00:57:53.909
the head and then Cathy and Adrian and Devon

00:57:53.909 –> 00:57:55.489
would be doing like the facial expressions So

00:57:55.489 –> 00:57:57.969
it’d be like five of us puppeteering her. Yeah

00:57:57.969 –> 00:57:59.690
What’s it like to work in the team like that?

00:57:59.710 –> 00:58:01.710
Is it hard for y ‘all to coordinate and get on

00:58:01.710 –> 00:58:04.610
the same? Cause I imagine your movements have

00:58:04.610 –> 00:58:06.070
to be timed with the dialogue, which have to

00:58:06.070 –> 00:58:09.349
be timed with the facial expressions. Yeah. And

00:58:09.349 –> 00:58:12.010
we didn’t really have time to rehearse. Cause

00:58:12.010 –> 00:58:15.170
Adrian and Cathy were also very, very busy with

00:58:15.170 –> 00:58:18.050
the makeup side of things. There was lots that

00:58:18.050 –> 00:58:21.530
they were doing. It was a small team. So we kind

00:58:21.530 –> 00:58:25.530
of just got, made it work on the day. So we would,

00:58:25.590 –> 00:58:29.329
we would do the blocking and that was when we

00:58:29.329 –> 00:58:32.710
got to rehearse. what we’re doing and Cathy would

00:58:32.710 –> 00:58:34.909
give instructions as to what she wanted. But

00:58:34.909 –> 00:58:40.130
for the most part, we just kind of made it. We

00:58:40.130 –> 00:58:43.449
just kind of made it work and seemed to seem

00:58:43.449 –> 00:58:47.050
to come together. And Jared Johnson, the director,

00:58:47.090 –> 00:58:49.949
he would just be like, no, can we just have a

00:58:49.949 –> 00:58:52.909
tilt of the head on this word? And, you know,

00:58:52.909 –> 00:58:57.960
he would fine tune things. But I think we Some

00:58:57.960 –> 00:59:00.400
after I love working in the team and after a

00:59:00.400 –> 00:59:02.000
while you kind of just get used to each other

00:59:02.000 –> 00:59:04.019
and you just kind of fall into a rhythm where

00:59:04.019 –> 00:59:06.380
you just pick up a puppet and suddenly you’re

00:59:06.380 –> 00:59:09.000
Creating a performance without even talking about

00:59:09.000 –> 00:59:12.639
it. It’s it just starts to happen With the rule

00:59:12.639 –> 00:59:16.079
of Jenny Penn was that team were you with a team

00:59:16.079 –> 00:59:20.260
or was that just you because it was? Right Yeah,

00:59:20.420 –> 00:59:23.380
yeah, I was I was a team of one for that. So

00:59:23.380 –> 00:59:26.340
I designed her I built all the different versions

00:59:26.340 –> 00:59:30.840
of her And aside from coaching John Lithgow in

00:59:30.840 –> 00:59:35.219
the puppetry, which was such a fun time. And

00:59:35.219 –> 00:59:37.760
I was on set for the start for the first few

00:59:37.760 –> 00:59:41.739
days. I didn’t actually, I wasn’t part of the

00:59:41.739 –> 00:59:43.659
shoot until the last week when I went down to

00:59:43.659 –> 00:59:46.179
Wellington to Stone Street Studios where Lord

00:59:46.179 –> 00:59:51.920
of the Rings and Avatar and so forth shot. I

00:59:51.920 –> 00:59:54.900
did specialized puppetry performance moments

00:59:54.900 –> 00:59:57.590
with two versions of three versions of the Jenny

00:59:57.590 –> 01:00:01.090
puppet. Because I’d created a two up size version

01:00:01.090 –> 01:00:04.769
as well as the regular size, a silicon screaming

01:00:04.769 –> 01:00:07.269
version, which never got seen in the final film.

01:00:08.050 –> 01:00:11.949
And so I would do that effectively taking over

01:00:11.949 –> 01:00:16.190
from John Lithgow. He might be there, but I would

01:00:16.190 –> 01:00:18.349
but we’d be creating this kind of crazy shot

01:00:18.349 –> 01:00:20.630
where she looked like she was like 20 feet in

01:00:20.630 –> 01:00:22.489
front of him. But it’s me with the bigger version

01:00:22.489 –> 01:00:26.320
of Jenny. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, that was, that

01:00:26.320 –> 01:00:28.679
was months and months and months of work. And

01:00:28.679 –> 01:00:31.139
you, you said you had to train him on puppetry,

01:00:31.380 –> 01:00:34.179
right? Is that, was he excited to learn that

01:00:34.179 –> 01:00:35.960
or was he like, Oh God, what am I doing here?

01:00:36.199 –> 01:00:40.039
No, no. John is awesome. Like when I first had

01:00:40.039 –> 01:00:41.679
a meeting about the project, it was a friend

01:00:41.679 –> 01:00:43.820
of mine. I’d worked on a couple of short films

01:00:43.820 –> 01:00:47.059
she had produced and written and she is friends

01:00:47.059 –> 01:00:49.139
with the producer, Catherine Fitzgerald. And

01:00:49.139 –> 01:00:51.219
she was like, I’ve set you up with a meeting

01:00:51.219 –> 01:00:53.519
for this movie. They need a puppet maker and

01:00:53.519 –> 01:00:55.719
a puppeteer. I’m not going to tell you a thing

01:00:55.719 –> 01:00:58.940
about it, but I will say that the director is

01:00:58.940 –> 01:01:01.179
James Ashcroft. So I was like, ah, okay. So I

01:01:01.179 –> 01:01:03.320
researched him, saw his movie that he’d done

01:01:03.320 –> 01:01:06.400
this movie coming home in the dark. Oh yeah,

01:01:06.639 –> 01:01:10.679
dark movie. Yeah, really dark, right? But I watched

01:01:10.679 –> 01:01:13.699
it and at that 15 -minute mark where that that

01:01:13.699 –> 01:01:16.440
particular scene happens, that kind of where

01:01:16.440 –> 01:01:19.320
everyone goes, what? I was like, okay, I want

01:01:19.320 –> 01:01:21.500
to work with this guy. So I was really excited

01:01:21.500 –> 01:01:24.440
to meet him. And then I’m having the Zoom with

01:01:24.440 –> 01:01:29.059
him and Kathy and Orlando, another producer,

01:01:29.579 –> 01:01:33.869
and James just casually mentions that John Lithgow

01:01:33.869 –> 01:01:35.829
and Geoffrey Rush are going to be playing the

01:01:35.829 –> 01:01:38.090
leads. And I’m said, I’m, I’m sorry, excuse me,

01:01:38.429 –> 01:01:40.369
because like John is one of my favorite actors

01:01:40.369 –> 01:01:44.110
in the world. And I was like, okay, I’m in I

01:01:44.110 –> 01:01:47.030
you had me, you had me at John Lithgow. It’s

01:01:47.030 –> 01:01:49.710
whatever it is, we’ll do, I’ll do it. Wow. So

01:01:49.710 –> 01:01:53.730
he was actually really lovely and enthusiastic

01:01:53.730 –> 01:02:01.199
about the, the, the puppet. And he had A little

01:02:01.199 –> 01:02:04.619
bit of experience doing puppetry, but he took

01:02:04.619 –> 01:02:06.980
to it like a fish to water I actually didn’t

01:02:06.980 –> 01:02:11.219
need to do that much. He got it. He got he got

01:02:11.219 –> 01:02:16.000
that She is because the thing with this character

01:02:16.000 –> 01:02:18.739
is that she’s not really a character She’s just

01:02:18.739 –> 01:02:22.340
an avatar for him, right? So there is no life

01:02:22.340 –> 01:02:24.920
to that character if that doll was you know,

01:02:24.980 –> 01:02:27.000
she’s not possessed She’s not her own person

01:02:27.000 –> 01:02:29.699
or anything like that She’s just there. She’s

01:02:29.699 –> 01:02:34.179
representing his his malice his you know his

01:02:34.179 –> 01:02:39.880
psychopathy and So yeah, so if he casts her off

01:02:39.880 –> 01:02:42.039
she’s she’s nothing she’s just a she’s a piece

01:02:42.039 –> 01:02:47.239
of cloth and plastic so he he Put all of you

01:02:47.239 –> 01:02:51.599
know his character into that doll But there were

01:02:51.599 –> 01:02:54.260
certain things that the doll needed to be able

01:02:54.260 –> 01:02:58.059
to do in performance that John was not experienced

01:02:58.059 –> 01:03:00.239
enough doing, and that’s when I came in and took

01:03:00.239 –> 01:03:04.280
over. Ah, I gotcha. Yeah, I mean, he usually

01:03:04.280 –> 01:03:07.139
plays very intense characters, so it’s easy to

01:03:07.139 –> 01:03:08.880
think that that’s what he’s like in real life,

01:03:08.880 –> 01:03:11.760
even though he’s just a really good actor. He’s

01:03:11.760 –> 01:03:14.500
just, he’s a lovely, lovely guy, and he’s had

01:03:14.500 –> 01:03:17.960
this incredible, iconic career. You know, he’s

01:03:17.960 –> 01:03:21.099
done musicals, he’s done sitcoms, he’s done movies,

01:03:21.219 –> 01:03:23.079
he’s played bad guys, he’s played good guys.

01:03:23.309 –> 01:03:26.750
He can swing between incredibly scary, which

01:03:26.750 –> 01:03:29.469
was my first, the first time I saw him in something

01:03:29.469 –> 01:03:33.309
was Brian De Palma’s blowout. Yeah, yeah, he’s

01:03:33.309 –> 01:03:36.250
great in that. He was really, and I was a kid

01:03:36.250 –> 01:03:39.909
and he terrified me. And, and, but then he goes

01:03:39.909 –> 01:03:42.030
and does something like Harry and the Hendersons.

01:03:42.269 –> 01:03:44.030
Right. And then later on Third Rock from the

01:03:44.030 –> 01:03:47.070
Sun, which I adored that show. Right. And so

01:03:47.070 –> 01:03:49.449
when I met him, I was like, permission to geek

01:03:49.449 –> 01:03:54.809
out. I was just like, ah! And he just patiently

01:03:54.809 –> 01:03:58.309
let me just like just enthuse and wax lyrical

01:03:58.309 –> 01:04:02.269
over him and then we got down to work Yeah, no,

01:04:02.269 –> 01:04:04.309
it’s a cool movie. It’s you guys did a great

01:04:04.309 –> 01:04:08.090
job with that. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks Yeah, yeah,

01:04:08.130 –> 01:04:11.010
it’s currently it’s about to have its Japanese

01:04:11.010 –> 01:04:14.070
premiere after all this time. Oh, wow and and

01:04:14.070 –> 01:04:17.730
and it’s been fun because like the The producer

01:04:17.730 –> 01:04:19.789
Catherine reached out to me. She goes that they

01:04:19.789 –> 01:04:23.699
want to license Jenny Penn for some merchandise

01:04:23.699 –> 01:04:27.960
and stuff. She said, that’s your IP. I’ll leave

01:04:27.960 –> 01:04:29.619
it with you. But just letting you know that’s

01:04:29.619 –> 01:04:31.320
what they want to do. So they’ve gone and created

01:04:31.320 –> 01:04:34.460
this sort of like limited edition run of merch

01:04:34.460 –> 01:04:37.780
just for the Japanese premiere. which you’ll

01:04:37.780 –> 01:04:39.360
be able to, like, people will be able to buy

01:04:39.360 –> 01:04:42.219
online. And, um, and I’m like, yeah, yeah, that’s

01:04:42.219 –> 01:04:45.099
great. Yeah. Fantastic. And also I want some

01:04:45.099 –> 01:04:48.019
of this merch for myself, please. So, um, yeah,

01:04:48.019 –> 01:04:50.440
at some point I’m, I’m, I’m expecting a parcel

01:04:50.440 –> 01:04:52.360
to turn up at the door with what they produced,

01:04:52.360 –> 01:04:55.599
but it’s just really fun to see them sort of

01:04:55.599 –> 01:04:57.679
like embracing her. I, they asked me to do a

01:04:57.679 –> 01:05:00.019
video with the puppet, but what’s kind of crazy

01:05:00.019 –> 01:05:03.119
is like they’ve really, they’ve really latched

01:05:03.119 –> 01:05:05.280
on to one of the versions of her, which is the

01:05:05.280 –> 01:05:08.780
angry expression. Jenny okay who only appears

01:05:08.780 –> 01:05:11.400
for like three seconds in the movie but that

01:05:11.400 –> 01:05:14.380
they wanted a verse that as a puppet so that

01:05:14.380 –> 01:05:16.659
they could take her around and do photographs

01:05:16.659 –> 01:05:19.860
of her in front of monuments and stuff and all

01:05:19.860 –> 01:05:23.739
the all the all the Promotional stuff features

01:05:23.739 –> 01:05:26.139
that particular puppet which is not the actual

01:05:26.139 –> 01:05:30.989
hero puppet at all, but as I Do you have any

01:05:30.989 –> 01:05:33.570
children yourself? No, I don’t have any kids.

01:05:33.909 –> 01:05:36.309
No. You’d probably be a great dad, you know,

01:05:36.409 –> 01:05:40.329
with all the puppets. Well, funnily enough, I

01:05:40.329 –> 01:05:43.769
have a nephew who does not like my puppets. He’s

01:05:43.769 –> 01:05:48.400
five years old and he’s… And he’s just like,

01:05:48.960 –> 01:05:51.340
scary, creepy doll, can you please put it away?

01:05:51.780 –> 01:05:55.300
Or like, you know, he doesn’t mind Chewbacca

01:05:55.300 –> 01:05:58.619
because he’s a huge Star Wars fan and Kermit

01:05:58.619 –> 01:06:00.500
and Gonzo sitting up there. But yeah, the rest

01:06:00.500 –> 01:06:02.260
of the puppets I had to put into storage because

01:06:02.260 –> 01:06:06.260
he was just like, too creepy. That’s actually

01:06:06.260 –> 01:06:09.199
a little relatable to me. I took a puppet class

01:06:09.199 –> 01:06:12.809
in college. And I took two that I was like happy

01:06:12.809 –> 01:06:14.690
with and one of them was this like Grim Reaper

01:06:14.690 –> 01:06:17.250
on the stick. That was just creepy. And my wife

01:06:17.250 –> 01:06:19.150
was like, Peter, you gotta get rid of that thing.

01:06:19.489 –> 01:06:21.829
So, I mean, it wasn’t like very professional,

01:06:21.909 –> 01:06:26.130
but it just looked off, you know? So yeah, some

01:06:26.130 –> 01:06:28.150
people don’t love that stuff, but I think it’s

01:06:28.150 –> 01:06:32.869
very cool. Was John Liskow like an exception

01:06:32.869 –> 01:06:35.610
to when you have to work with actors as, you

01:06:35.610 –> 01:06:38.980
know, as a puppeteer or are they usually pretty

01:06:38.980 –> 01:06:41.860
cool about working with a puppet? Because it’s

01:06:41.860 –> 01:06:46.280
not like an actor, it’s someone creating an inanimate

01:06:46.280 –> 01:06:50.400
object to interact with them. Absolutely. For

01:06:50.400 –> 01:06:54.739
the most part, yeah, they don’t mind. When working

01:06:54.739 –> 01:06:57.000
with Megan, the actors were fascinated with her.

01:06:57.179 –> 01:06:59.929
And I mean, she looked beautiful. Except for

01:06:59.929 –> 01:07:02.309
when she was all torn up at the end, right? But

01:07:02.309 –> 01:07:05.469
like if you if you look at her I mean she she’s

01:07:05.469 –> 01:07:07.809
like a beautiful looking design and she looks

01:07:07.809 –> 01:07:10.469
beautiful in real life. So people Didn’t find

01:07:10.469 –> 01:07:14.969
her spooky Until we started animating her so

01:07:14.969 –> 01:07:17.050
if we if we if somebody was just sitting there

01:07:17.050 –> 01:07:19.230
and they fired up the radio controls and suddenly

01:07:19.230 –> 01:07:21.389
had the eyes move and look at her then people

01:07:21.389 –> 01:07:26.170
be like, oh no Bobby I think I only met one person

01:07:26.360 –> 01:07:29.320
uh amongst the crew who was absolutely creeped

01:07:29.320 –> 01:07:31.639
out by Bobby uh who was in in sweet tooth he

01:07:31.639 –> 01:07:34.619
was like little hybrid uh gopher boy and he’s

01:07:34.619 –> 01:07:38.019
a puppet about two foot tall and um but everybody

01:07:38.019 –> 01:07:41.079
else you know uh really loved working with him

01:07:41.079 –> 01:07:43.780
no it was more on the evil dead films when people

01:07:43.780 –> 01:07:48.300
would meet their puppet versions And, and, and

01:07:48.300 –> 01:07:52.159
be like, Oh my God. You know, because like we,

01:07:52.480 –> 01:07:55.460
I didn’t, uh, um, uh, although I did a little

01:07:55.460 –> 01:07:58.900
bit of 3d sculpting on Evil Dead Wrath. Um, it

01:07:58.900 –> 01:08:01.659
was, it was very, very much sort of like helping

01:08:01.659 –> 01:08:04.000
to clean up scans and stuff to help take up some

01:08:04.000 –> 01:08:06.019
of the workload. I didn’t do any actual sculpting

01:08:06.019 –> 01:08:12.260
of like gory things or cool things. Um, uh, but

01:08:12.260 –> 01:08:14.619
yeah, there, there are puppet versions of people

01:08:14.619 –> 01:08:17.550
in those movies. designed for specific gags.

01:08:18.329 –> 01:08:20.449
And so yeah, they’d be a little bit freaked out

01:08:20.449 –> 01:08:25.390
when they meet them. Do you find your puppetry

01:08:25.390 –> 01:08:28.489
resume, there’s a lot of horror, I would almost

01:08:28.489 –> 01:08:32.750
say almost more horror than not. Is that a niche

01:08:32.750 –> 01:08:35.449
that you’re falling into? Are you noticing more

01:08:35.449 –> 01:08:38.310
puppetry needs for horror films? Or like what’s

01:08:38.310 –> 01:08:41.770
the story there? Yeah, I think it’s just… It’s

01:08:41.770 –> 01:08:44.250
just kind of gone that way because the puppetry

01:08:44.250 –> 01:08:47.630
for the horror stuff that I’ve done so far, apart

01:08:47.630 –> 01:08:52.369
from the tank has and Megan has more fallen lately

01:08:52.369 –> 01:08:56.050
into it’s not character stuff. So it’s it’s not

01:08:56.050 –> 01:08:58.970
like it’s it’s a creature that I’m I’m part of

01:08:58.970 –> 01:09:02.390
a performance of. It’s more it’s more being replacement

01:09:02.390 –> 01:09:04.689
puppets, puppets that are replacements for human

01:09:04.689 –> 01:09:06.369
beings because they’re going to create specific

01:09:06.369 –> 01:09:08.569
gags. So they need to have some life in them.

01:09:08.649 –> 01:09:12.859
So it’s not. It’s not about creating a character

01:09:12.859 –> 01:09:15.079
performance. It’s more about just giving the

01:09:15.079 –> 01:09:17.460
illusion that they’re alive. So it’s, it’s a

01:09:17.460 –> 01:09:19.859
different kind of puppet. Well, it’s still puppetry,

01:09:20.239 –> 01:09:23.319
but it’s not character puppetry. Right. So yeah,

01:09:23.380 –> 01:09:26.659
it’s just, sorry. They’re like a lot, a lot more

01:09:26.659 –> 01:09:30.119
quicker shots and kind of like, you can be like

01:09:30.119 –> 01:09:33.199
on fire or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. I’m

01:09:33.199 –> 01:09:35.220
just without going into specifics, but yeah,

01:09:35.279 –> 01:09:37.779
I mean, like a lot of the stuff is there’s a

01:09:37.779 –> 01:09:40.409
lot of There’s a lot of time taken with the setups

01:09:40.409 –> 01:09:44.210
because they were often very complicated. One

01:09:44.210 –> 01:09:46.090
thing I’ve sort of found lately is that it seems

01:09:46.090 –> 01:09:48.770
to be dogs. I seem to be doing a lot of stuff

01:09:48.770 –> 01:09:53.159
with dogs. I did a commercial earlier this year

01:09:53.159 –> 01:09:55.260
in Australia, which was about a pack of dogs.

01:09:55.399 –> 01:09:57.399
It was for Publix, the supermarket chain over

01:09:57.399 –> 01:10:00.960
there. I just seem to be doing and Dennis the

01:10:00.960 –> 01:10:03.640
wolf in Minecraft movies. So I play that character

01:10:03.640 –> 01:10:08.180
and, and, uh, uh, sweet tooth. Uh, we had dog

01:10:08.180 –> 01:10:12.659
children and, um, yeah. So lately and, and there’ve

01:10:12.659 –> 01:10:14.600
been other dogs as well that I’ve created. So,

01:10:15.140 –> 01:10:17.380
yeah. You know, there’s Two movies that come

01:10:17.380 –> 01:10:19.859
to mind that are being remade that I imagine

01:10:19.859 –> 01:10:23.520
would both be heavy with puppetry. And, uh, like

01:10:23.520 –> 01:10:26.640
Robert Eggers is supposed to be doing a remake

01:10:26.640 –> 01:10:30.920
of Labyrinth. So that, and then they’re, they’re

01:10:30.920 –> 01:10:34.659
remaking of Magic, which had Anthony Hopkins

01:10:34.659 –> 01:10:38.449
as a ventriloquist. I mean, there might be stuff

01:10:38.449 –> 01:10:41.949
coming down the pipeline for you. I think, I

01:10:41.949 –> 01:10:44.050
think neither of those ones are shooting here

01:10:44.050 –> 01:10:47.449
in New Zealand, but, um, that would, yeah, it’d

01:10:47.449 –> 01:10:50.390
be a bummer, but like, yeah, magic, magic’s terrifying.

01:10:51.329 –> 01:10:54.489
It’s, um, and I hope they do a good job remaking

01:10:54.489 –> 01:10:57.090
it because Anthony Hopkins was, you know, he

01:10:57.090 –> 01:11:00.329
was so good in that film. He’s, he’s a brilliant

01:11:00.329 –> 01:11:02.489
actor. Yeah. Have you, have you thought about.

01:11:03.079 –> 01:11:06.199
I don’t know, relocating or like, do you ever

01:11:06.199 –> 01:11:09.060
get off our jobs abroad or what’s? I had this

01:11:09.060 –> 01:11:12.300
discussion, uh, just recently with my partner

01:11:12.300 –> 01:11:15.100
and, and, you know, talking to her about the

01:11:15.100 –> 01:11:18.399
fact that, you know, Australia, there’s, there’s

01:11:18.399 –> 01:11:21.659
quite a bit going on. Um, a lot of big production

01:11:21.659 –> 01:11:24.859
shoot there. I’ve, uh, I’ve got a friend who

01:11:24.859 –> 01:11:27.300
is working on a big movie there who wanted me

01:11:27.300 –> 01:11:29.880
to be part of it, but it just, it just financially

01:11:29.880 –> 01:11:32.600
wasn’t going to. be feasible for them to fly

01:11:32.600 –> 01:11:35.539
me over and then put me up to shoot this thing

01:11:35.539 –> 01:11:38.300
when I’d only be working every now and again.

01:11:39.220 –> 01:11:42.020
Right. I have British citizenship because I lived

01:11:42.020 –> 01:11:45.939
in London and you know I’ve got lots of friends

01:11:45.939 –> 01:11:49.800
there who are working on all kinds of cool things,

01:11:50.140 –> 01:11:54.300
Star Wars films and all kinds of stuff. Yeah,

01:11:54.420 –> 01:11:59.239
they got all of our productions from LA. Well,

01:12:00.039 –> 01:12:03.039
I mean, though England has… I mean, Star Wars

01:12:03.039 –> 01:12:05.319
was always traditionally filmed in England anyway,

01:12:05.579 –> 01:12:07.939
in the studios. Alstree Studios was where their

01:12:07.939 –> 01:12:10.659
first Star Wars film was shot. They always, all

01:12:10.659 –> 01:12:12.920
of their films were shot there. Yeah. They, they

01:12:12.920 –> 01:12:15.399
just go where it’s just financially feasible

01:12:15.399 –> 01:12:18.060
for them to make it because LA is an expensive

01:12:18.060 –> 01:12:21.760
place filled with all kinds of red tape issues

01:12:21.760 –> 01:12:26.100
and, and, and expenses are compounded because,

01:12:26.119 –> 01:12:29.279
um, uh, you know, it can be way more expensive

01:12:29.279 –> 01:12:34.460
to do one particular type of, um, uh, location

01:12:34.460 –> 01:12:37.640
work compared to say, just doing it all in Europe

01:12:37.640 –> 01:12:41.199
or whatever. Um, It’s true. It’s true. It’s a

01:12:41.199 –> 01:12:43.000
big debate in our politics right now, actually.

01:12:43.680 –> 01:12:47.520
Well, this is it. And it’s the same here. You

01:12:47.520 –> 01:12:50.199
know, there’s discussion that the New Zealand

01:12:50.199 –> 01:12:52.100
government isn’t doing enough to actually make

01:12:52.100 –> 01:12:55.039
it attractive to, because our tax rebate doesn’t

01:12:55.039 –> 01:12:57.600
equal that of Australia’s, for instance. So Australia

01:12:57.600 –> 01:13:01.220
is more attractive than New Zealand. Last year,

01:13:01.239 –> 01:13:04.239
for instance, was like not great for the film

01:13:04.239 –> 01:13:07.140
industry here. I mean, I barely worked. It was

01:13:07.140 –> 01:13:08.680
really, really tough, but this year has been

01:13:08.680 –> 01:13:11.390
really good. That’s great. Yeah, it’s been we’ve

01:13:11.390 –> 01:13:13.449
been through a rocky patch. They they actually

01:13:13.449 –> 01:13:17.270
also just Increased the tax incentives in California

01:13:17.270 –> 01:13:19.869
and reduced a little bit of the red tape in LA.

01:13:19.890 –> 01:13:22.369
Although I think it was kind of You know just

01:13:22.369 –> 01:13:24.430
trimming the ice, you know, it’s like not not

01:13:24.430 –> 01:13:30.050
enough impact They won. I’m sure or we won. Yeah

01:13:30.050 –> 01:13:33.970
as well. Absolutely Paul here’s a fun one for

01:13:33.970 –> 01:13:37.210
you is if you could puppeteer do you have like

01:13:37.210 –> 01:13:41.720
a A wish list or a dream of any like iconic characters

01:13:41.720 –> 01:13:47.020
you would like to puppeteer No, I I I don’t actually

01:13:47.020 –> 01:13:51.140
because I feel like they belong to other people

01:13:51.140 –> 01:13:55.420
So or but but if you ask me if if if there was

01:13:55.420 –> 01:13:58.039
something I wish I’d been part of there would

01:13:58.039 –> 01:14:01.060
be things like say puppeteering being part of

01:14:01.060 –> 01:14:04.100
the puppeteering teams for Jurassic Park for

01:14:04.100 –> 01:14:08.569
instance with the characters there working on

01:14:08.569 –> 01:14:11.149
movies like The Thing, the original, you know,

01:14:11.189 –> 01:14:14.189
the 1982 thing, uh, Gremlins would have been,

01:14:14.250 –> 01:14:16.510
I obsessed over Gremlins when that came out.

01:14:16.569 –> 01:14:19.329
They’re making another one of those. I know.

01:14:19.590 –> 01:14:23.310
I know. And, uh, my God, I would love that. I

01:14:23.310 –> 01:14:27.689
would absolutely love that. Um, yeah, so definitely,

01:14:27.689 –> 01:14:32.090
um, yeah, the Star Wars films, you know, I’ve

01:14:32.090 –> 01:14:33.689
got a couple of friends who’ve worked on Star

01:14:33.689 –> 01:14:39.000
Wars films and, and, um, Yeah, I would definitely

01:14:39.000 –> 01:14:40.960
love to get at least one Star Wars film under

01:14:40.960 –> 01:14:43.039
my belt. There was going to be one, Taika Waititi

01:14:43.039 –> 01:14:44.939
was supposed to be doing one. And I thought,

01:14:45.260 –> 01:14:46.840
oh great, because he’ll insist that it’s shot

01:14:46.840 –> 01:14:49.020
here in New Zealand. And it just seems to have

01:14:49.020 –> 01:14:53.060
just faded away. Yeah. Do you think with the

01:14:53.060 –> 01:14:55.100
rise, you know, the last 10 years has been a

01:14:55.100 –> 01:14:59.779
lot more filmmakers who are insistent on practical

01:14:59.779 –> 01:15:02.539
effects. Do you find that that’s had an impact

01:15:02.539 –> 01:15:05.159
on the amount of puppetry work that’s also happening?

01:15:05.470 –> 01:15:09.689
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Uh, and, and there’s

01:15:09.689 –> 01:15:12.090
a preference for practical because at least it’s

01:15:12.090 –> 01:15:13.890
something that, you know, that you’ve got in

01:15:13.890 –> 01:15:17.409
camera and, you know, it’s all a tool set with,

01:15:17.409 –> 01:15:21.909
um, digital effects and even AI is, you know,

01:15:21.930 –> 01:15:24.649
when it’s used properly has its, has its uses,

01:15:25.149 –> 01:15:30.750
um, uh, as an assistant to the effects rather

01:15:30.750 –> 01:15:36.060
than generating them completely. Um, But yeah,

01:15:36.060 –> 01:15:39.260
as one of the VFX supervisors on a project I

01:15:39.260 –> 01:15:41.680
worked on, they said they’d rather have a puppet

01:15:41.680 –> 01:15:43.539
in the scene than trying to recreate something

01:15:43.539 –> 01:15:46.420
from scratch. It’s like even on Minecraft, you

01:15:46.420 –> 01:15:50.199
know, Dennis the Wolf originally, they weren’t

01:15:50.199 –> 01:15:52.420
going to have anything but just somebody running

01:15:52.420 –> 01:15:54.899
around in the scene. And then it was like, oh,

01:15:54.960 –> 01:15:56.319
we’ll have somebody running around, but we’ll

01:15:56.319 –> 01:15:58.699
have them hold a square of foam to represent

01:15:58.699 –> 01:16:02.340
the head. And it wasn’t until Alex Duncan, who

01:16:02.340 –> 01:16:04.859
was the movement coach on the first one, she

01:16:04.859 –> 01:16:07.039
was reading the script and she directed me in

01:16:07.039 –> 01:16:09.239
a couple of short films that I created puppets

01:16:09.239 –> 01:16:12.920
for. And she was like, this is we really need

01:16:12.920 –> 01:16:15.000
a puppet because there’s got to be physical interaction

01:16:15.000 –> 01:16:18.039
with Jack Black’s character and like he’s got

01:16:18.039 –> 01:16:21.140
a whole props in his mouth and stuff. So I was

01:16:21.140 –> 01:16:25.319
engaged to build the proxy puppet head to be

01:16:25.319 –> 01:16:27.920
used on set and then eventually got cast as the

01:16:27.920 –> 01:16:35.069
puppeteer. Um, and, uh, Jack really appreciated

01:16:35.069 –> 01:16:37.529
not only having that puppet to interact with,

01:16:37.710 –> 01:16:40.630
but also that there was a human being there that

01:16:40.630 –> 01:16:42.890
he could act opposite because I also acted the

01:16:42.890 –> 01:16:44.970
role as well as puppeteered. I, I, you know,

01:16:44.970 –> 01:16:46.970
I don’t normally, when I puppeteer, I don’t normally

01:16:46.970 –> 01:16:49.430
do anything with my face. I keep that very neutral.

01:16:49.609 –> 01:16:51.069
It’s all in, you know, it’s all what’s going

01:16:51.069 –> 01:16:53.689
on with the character. But for that one, because

01:16:53.689 –> 01:16:57.479
VFX needed me to be very, very small with my

01:16:57.479 –> 01:16:59.800
movements for the most part because I, I, you

01:16:59.800 –> 01:17:02.960
know, they didn’t want me to be affecting how

01:17:02.960 –> 01:17:07.039
they put Dennis into the scene. Um, I was like,

01:17:07.039 –> 01:17:09.539
well, how on earth do I communicate when I have

01:17:09.539 –> 01:17:11.979
to be very, very still? So I ended up just acting

01:17:11.979 –> 01:17:14.579
with my face as well. And so that worked out

01:17:14.579 –> 01:17:17.640
well. So Jared Hess would say to VFX, if they

01:17:17.640 –> 01:17:19.699
asked him, what does, what does, how is Dennis

01:17:19.699 –> 01:17:22.020
reacting in this, in the scene? He’d just go,

01:17:22.100 –> 01:17:25.100
well, see what Paul’s doing. That, that’s a good

01:17:25.100 –> 01:17:30.000
basis for what he’s how he’s behaving. Um, and,

01:17:30.100 –> 01:17:33.500
uh, and, and Jack appreciated that too. Uh, for

01:17:33.500 –> 01:17:37.100
the second film, uh, it was a different setup.

01:17:37.579 –> 01:17:42.039
Um, and I was basically, I had a full green screen

01:17:42.039 –> 01:17:44.640
suit on and they didn’t, they didn’t, um, use

01:17:44.640 –> 01:17:48.399
my facial expressions at all, but I’m not, I’m

01:17:48.399 –> 01:17:53.460
not in Minecraft too very much. So, yeah. Well,

01:17:53.560 –> 01:17:55.020
was that, you’re probably, would you say I was

01:17:55.020 –> 01:17:57.630
the biggest? project you’ve been involved with?

01:17:58.510 –> 01:18:01.829
Yeah, it’s the, it’s the biggest. Um, yeah, cause

01:18:01.829 –> 01:18:03.569
it made nearly a billion dollars and it was like

01:18:03.569 –> 01:18:06.630
all these major stars and it was, yeah, it was

01:18:06.630 –> 01:18:09.869
a, yeah, definitely the biggest by far. Absolutely.

01:18:10.369 –> 01:18:13.430
And, and it was amazing to see, um, just the

01:18:13.430 –> 01:18:16.250
size of the machine and action. That’s so cool.

01:18:16.449 –> 01:18:18.130
Yeah. And the reaction that got, you know, that

01:18:18.130 –> 01:18:20.989
must’ve been thrilling to see just how people

01:18:20.989 –> 01:18:23.479
are going crazy over that movie. Absolutely.

01:18:23.640 –> 01:18:28.199
Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, I don’t think anybody expected

01:18:28.199 –> 01:18:31.239
just how people would react to things like, you

01:18:31.239 –> 01:18:34.739
know, lava chicken and, and, and, uh, chicken

01:18:34.739 –> 01:18:37.979
jockey and all, all of that. Yeah. Yeah. Excellent.

01:18:38.279 –> 01:18:41.720
Yeah. So cool. Well, Paul, we, we’ve kept you

01:18:41.720 –> 01:18:45.220
for a good while. Um, so before we, we let you

01:18:45.220 –> 01:18:47.800
go is would you, would you have any advice to

01:18:47.800 –> 01:18:49.439
someone that might be listening? That’s like,

01:18:49.460 –> 01:18:51.300
Hey, I like puppets. I want to learn how to do

01:18:51.300 –> 01:18:53.500
this. I know there’s probably a lot of avenues

01:18:53.500 –> 01:18:56.460
with YouTube and stuff, but coming from a pro.

01:18:57.520 –> 01:18:59.319
Well, uh, YouTube is actually a great one. I

01:18:59.319 –> 01:19:02.279
mean, I’m a big fan of YouTube and, uh, I’ve

01:19:02.279 –> 01:19:08.840
used YouTube as, um, my go -to channel for finding

01:19:08.840 –> 01:19:11.340
out how to do things. I mean, I, I learned so

01:19:11.340 –> 01:19:13.239
much about how puppets are professionally built,

01:19:13.539 –> 01:19:16.520
um, at when I started puppeteering professionally

01:19:16.520 –> 01:19:22.270
and, um, so much and, uh, I often turn to it

01:19:22.270 –> 01:19:24.390
when I’m like, how would I do this? How could

01:19:24.390 –> 01:19:27.869
I potentially do that? Learning to 3D sculpt,

01:19:27.909 –> 01:19:32.289
for instance, I turn to YouTube. I think you

01:19:32.289 –> 01:19:34.550
just got to, it’s like so many other things as

01:19:34.550 –> 01:19:36.850
an artist, you just kind of got to do it and

01:19:36.850 –> 01:19:40.649
just if you’re passionate about it, then you’ll

01:19:40.649 –> 01:19:42.930
just obsess about it and you’ll just make, you’ll

01:19:42.930 –> 01:19:47.029
just find ways to create the characters, you

01:19:47.029 –> 01:19:56.560
know, and I gave a chat recently, and there were

01:19:56.560 –> 01:20:00.619
lots of people at this chat who were interested

01:20:00.619 –> 01:20:02.439
in becoming professional puppeteers. And when

01:20:02.439 –> 01:20:04.939
they heard my story, they were like, oh, so you

01:20:04.939 –> 01:20:07.619
had a lot of luck. I was like, yeah, that’s the

01:20:07.619 –> 01:20:13.390
problem. So many of the projects that I’ve worked

01:20:13.390 –> 01:20:15.609
on have all come from recommendations by other

01:20:15.609 –> 01:20:17.789
people who have worked with me, who have said,

01:20:17.789 –> 01:20:20.569
oh, Paul would be a really good fit for this

01:20:20.569 –> 01:20:23.029
project. Well, that’s not luck, though, is it?

01:20:23.189 –> 01:20:26.149
You’ve created your opportunity. Yeah, no, that’s

01:20:26.149 –> 01:20:29.710
right. That’s right. But, you know, at the start,

01:20:29.810 –> 01:20:34.390
it was just kind of, yeah, I just, I haven’t

01:20:34.390 –> 01:20:37.750
hustled as much as perhaps some other people

01:20:37.750 –> 01:20:40.210
might have. Um, just because I’ve been just really,

01:20:40.210 –> 01:20:42.750
really fortunate that the timing of things has,

01:20:42.750 –> 01:20:45.550
has meant that I’ve been able to be recommended

01:20:45.550 –> 01:20:47.649
by somebody and then I’m able to do the project.

01:20:47.829 –> 01:20:49.909
And then that’s led me to getting more and more

01:20:49.909 –> 01:20:53.050
work. And then my Instagram, I mean, like putting,

01:20:53.430 –> 01:20:55.569
putting stuff on, you know, on something like

01:20:55.569 –> 01:20:59.890
Instagram, um, shooting videos, people love videos

01:20:59.890 –> 01:21:03.000
of behind the scenes of things. Well, that’s

01:21:03.000 –> 01:21:05.039
actually a really good segue. How can people

01:21:05.039 –> 01:21:07.560
follow you if they want to learn more about your

01:21:07.560 –> 01:21:09.479
work or just see what you’re up to? Do you have

01:21:09.479 –> 01:21:12.640
an Instagram or YouTube? I do, I do. It’s Paul

01:21:12.640 –> 01:21:17.479
Lewis Puppets on Instagram. And I mean, I have

01:21:17.479 –> 01:21:21.180
a website that just basically, it’s paullewispuppets

01:21:21.180 –> 01:21:23.739
.com, which I just keep up to date. It’s just

01:21:23.739 –> 01:21:28.819
basically my calling card. And yeah, when I’m

01:21:28.819 –> 01:21:32.640
allowed to post stuff, I update. That and same

01:21:32.640 –> 01:21:37.359
on Instagram. I’m not as I don’t build as much

01:21:37.359 –> 01:21:39.939
as perhaps I should but I live in a small flat

01:21:39.939 –> 01:21:43.539
and And it’s really easy to start and it just

01:21:43.539 –> 01:21:46.340
like have things sort of like overload the flat

01:21:46.340 –> 01:21:48.500
in terms of puppets I’ve had to give away puppets

01:21:48.500 –> 01:21:50.460
or put puppets into storage because I’ve just

01:21:50.460 –> 01:21:52.899
been like I got nowhere to put all this stuff

01:21:52.899 –> 01:21:56.439
So we understand that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

01:21:56.720 –> 01:21:59.479
Well, thank you for joining us today Well, thank

01:21:59.479 –> 01:22:01.060
you for having me. I really enjoyed talking to

01:22:01.060 –> 01:22:03.460
you guys. Yeah, this this is awesome. This is

01:22:03.460 –> 01:22:05.500
educational. I think people get a kick out of

01:22:05.500 –> 01:22:08.960
it Yeah, it’s one of the sort of goals of our

01:22:08.960 –> 01:22:12.159
podcast is to sort of You know try to show all

01:22:12.159 –> 01:22:15.640
the all different aspects of of filmmaking As

01:22:15.640 –> 01:22:17.659
part, you know, we we talk a lot about our films

01:22:17.659 –> 01:22:18.939
and things like that But we do it through the

01:22:18.939 –> 01:22:21.659
lens of you know those who make it and so it’s

01:22:21.659 –> 01:22:23.300
really great to have people like you on and show

01:22:23.820 –> 01:22:26.560
different, you know, roles and aspects of the

01:22:26.560 –> 01:22:28.300
filmmaking process that people probably aren’t

01:22:28.300 –> 01:22:31.500
often exposed to. So thank you. Yeah. Yeah. And,

01:22:31.500 –> 01:22:34.380
and it, and this is the thing with filmmaking,

01:22:34.699 –> 01:22:37.859
it’s such a collaborative process. And, and I

01:22:37.859 –> 01:22:39.539
just love that everybody just coming together

01:22:39.539 –> 01:22:42.779
with all their skills and just like the artistry

01:22:42.779 –> 01:22:45.279
and then just making this thing happen. And it’s,

01:22:45.279 –> 01:22:48.140
it’s really awesome. It really is. Well, thank

01:22:48.140 –> 01:22:51.670
you. Thank you for checking out today’s episode

01:22:51.670 –> 01:22:53.949
of Nightmare Logic. We want to give a big thank

01:22:53.949 –> 01:22:56.090
you to Paul Lewis for taking the time out of

01:22:56.090 –> 01:22:58.470
his busy schedule to come chat with us about

01:22:58.470 –> 01:23:01.609
all the experiences he’s had puppeteering on

01:23:01.609 –> 01:23:03.470
horror films. It was really great to talk to

01:23:03.470 –> 01:23:06.850
him. For today’s show notes, you can go to our

01:23:06.850 –> 01:23:09.890
website at nightmarelogic .net and follow us

01:23:09.890 –> 01:23:13.010
on Instagram at nightmarelogicpod. We also want

01:23:13.010 –> 01:23:15.090
to give a thank you to our composer Lars Lang

01:23:15.090 –> 01:23:18.510
-Peterson for our score. Until next time. Hang

01:23:18.510 –> 01:23:18.890
in there.