April Fools: Twist Endings And Reveals

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Welcome back to nightmare logic the podcast where

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the twist ending is that you were the host all

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along for today Will be your MacGuffin’s Christopher

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Smith. I’m Shalom night In honor of April Fool’s

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Day, we’re gonna be discussing twist endings

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their history our favorites and the WTFs All

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right, well we’ll stitch that together into something

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good So yeah Taffeta, what did you do this week?

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This weekend? I mean, like, I went on a date.

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Like, I am officially seeing somebody. I don’t

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know if I can put that out here. You guys, you

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can’t see at home, but she’s glowing. Um, I went

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to the comedy store for the first time. Um, that

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was really neat to see where like all the, uh,

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they call it the OG room or like, you know, uh,

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Jerry Lewis and Dean Martin had done their like

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first, you know, stick on stage. So I got to

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see that. I got to see, uh, all the lights of

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all the people who have performed there be in

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the same room where Michael Keaton had performed.

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And that was really cool. Uh, so that was kind

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of the highlight of, uh, I love going there.

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That’s a great spot. And it was right next to

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the, uh, the, the riot hotel, I guess. Mm -hmm,

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you know, right house. Yeah, right house. So,

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you know, I’m kind of learning all that, you

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know, I’m still new to California. So it’s got

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a lot of history, although nowadays it feels

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a little rich. Yes. It’s not as it did. It did

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not seem nearly as like rock and roll as I thought

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it might. But, you know, it was kind of cool.

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Another piece of California I’m exploring. So

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that’s about it. Nice. Got to get a time machine

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to see it in its prime. Yeah. So, Peter, what

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did you see? Anything interesting this week?

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Perhaps with me. Well. Yeah, well that yeah That’s

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you want to talk about yeah, Christopher, and

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I saw undertone the scariest movie you will ever

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hear as it’s a Boldly claims yeah, yeah, it wasn’t

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that scary, but it was it had some good suspense

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from a filmmaking perspective I thought it was

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very good like how they approached the tone like

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it had a good vibe Yeah, I mean it all takes

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place pretty much in one location One with one

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actor really to technically see she doesn’t have

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any lines though. She’s right, but then you have

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the other podcast Oh, yeah, you’re right. You’re

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right podcast host the video a guy. Yeah, that’s

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right It’s not that it reminded me of Pontypool,

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but that’s another horror movie that plays with

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sound in a way So it kind of made me think of

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that. Yeah, I think actually I think horror films

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that Use sound is like a major device. They usually

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are pretty interesting. I think true. It’s just

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limiting when that’s like 90 % of Where your

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scares are coming from I feel like well, that’s

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yeah, that’s fair I think like we both kind of

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agree that Although like this is a really good

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film for the budget right that day I think they

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shot it for like five hundred thousand dollars

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or something before a 24 acquired it put in a

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little extra money to like Make it a little nicer

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like probably I’m assuming color correction and

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sound mix and stuff, but But it just shows How

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successful and interesting a film you can make

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on what is in all it was called a micro budget,

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you know, so that’s cool But like, you know it

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when you’re limiting your characters and locations

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Sometimes it feels like a you know, it’s correct

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me if you think differently, but it’s like not

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as a It’s like so simple that it kind of almost

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feels like it’s drags or they’re like it’s not

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Complex enough like you’re leaning on the same

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kinds of things Yeah You’re limited to what you

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can do with that. Yeah, that’s a good way to

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put it. It’s a good way to put it Yeah, like

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it depends on the the premise and what you’re

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doing with that But you got to get really creative

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to make every second count because everyone’s

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like are you got one person here? One place yeah,

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but I still think it was good. I know I know

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I agree. Yeah, we’re saying it’s it’s fascinating

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I do think some people will be like what the

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fuck Others might kind of appreciate the art.

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Yeah, I mean I think correct me if I’m wrong

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But I think maybe I liked a little bit more than

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you did like I I appreciate it a lot for what

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it was But I totally get the criticisms to you

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well the criticism that’s not necessarily like

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a spoiler that I guess I had about it and I don’t

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blame them for doing this because what the hell

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else you gonna do is Sometimes they’re ramping

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up the sound or, you know, the intensity of something

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and they don’t have a visual to really showcase.

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So they will do a push in on like something on

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the wall, you know? Right. They build the suspense,

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but they don’t ever release it really. But that,

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I mean, that I’m not going to fault them for

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that because I think that builds towards the.

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But in the moments, yeah, they just it’s like,

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OK, we got to push in on this creepy picture

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of Jesus or whatever. You know, and it’s religious.

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It has religious elements to it, so it makes

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sense. But I did notice that stuff there. But

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I will say there is a website called the undertone

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movie where you can go and check out the podcast

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episodes from the film that are. Oh, really?

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Yeah, that’s what I was trying to tell you. Oh,

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but it’s I don’t know if you can listen to them,

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but it’s just it snaps us of them, but it’s kind

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of cool promotion. I was like, I appreciated

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that. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Speaking of cool promotions,

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we’re going to touch on one and two and a little

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bit here. But do you see anything else that you

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want to share about or? Yeah, I so this is kind

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of funny. There’s a lot of movies I have not

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seen. I mean, I think I could point to anyone

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and there would be like a Galerino mission of

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something they haven’t seen that would surprise

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you. Like, do you guys have one that you’d be

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Someone would be like, what the fuck you haven’t

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seen. Oh, I’m sure a million. Oh, yeah, for sure.

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Like, well, as a horror fan, I had not seen the

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cabinet of Dr. Caligari. Yeah. So I started watching

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at one point and I finished it this week and

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it kind of ties into our whole twist thing that

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we’ll get into a second because it’s considered

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the first film with a twist ending. I can’t confirm

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that because I’m sure there was hundreds of movies

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out by that time. Right. But it’s just kind of

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a notable one. Maybe the first one that broke

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through. Popular consciousness right and because

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it was so like influential the visuals of it

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the style the German Expressionism, you know,

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I I feel like even like the goth culture owes

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a bit to that Yeah, it’s it’s cool. It obviously

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has its limitations if you’re seeing it like

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Over a hundred years later, right because they’re

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not doing crazy camera work. It’s a lot of static

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shots, but the artistry is in the sets and in

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the look and in the mood. I got to check it out

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being a goth. I’m developing my goth side lately.

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Nice. I like that. Cool. Well, let’s segue into

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the news. We love a good shock show. That’s fun.

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That’s so good, I don’t know I think it’s kind

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of Jesus so basically what we just watched what

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you just heard was a clip of searchlight pictures

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they were doing a advanced screening promotional

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screening for ready or not to and they Had this

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exponential element where they sprayed the audience

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with blood during a particular slash moment in

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the film which Seems awesome. Very William Castle.

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Yeah, I mean, supposedly there is a time like,

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I don’t know, 10 years ago where and maybe this

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is still the case, but they were talking about

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how theaters are going to have to start being

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more experiential like that to continue to get

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people to come. They should for especially horror

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movies. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, back in the 50s and

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60s, they used to play with this stuff a lot

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and. They even had like smells like smell -o

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-rama or something like that. William Castle.

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He was known for it. Yeah, I mean, release the

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locusts on crowds. Bunch of cockroach. It’s kind

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of like they had back in the day They had like

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these vintage shock shows were like in the 30s

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through like the 60s and stuff like they would

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actually have like apparitions like come on this,

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you know stage like when like, you know, the

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ghost parts would come up they’d have skeletons

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and people come up there and kind of run through

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the audience and kind of like, you know mess

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with their hair and kind of go in and out and

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stuff. It doesn’t scale very well in today’s

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society. Not at all. Yeah, but it’s kind of like

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I guess the next step in those like, you know,

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those interactive Nice movie. Well to see that

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clip go to our website. It’ll be on the show

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notes. That is nightmare logic net So in other

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news John Carpenter announces a graphic novel

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called Cathedral It’s co -written with Sandy

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King and Sean subject in illustrated by Frederico

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de Luca and Luis Guarragan I got I really really

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Butchered that colored by Ryan Wynn and lettered

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by Marshall Dillon Does our resident comic book

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expert have anything they’d like to say about

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this? I’m definitely excited for it because he’s

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done other comics before where people have actually

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taken to stuff like The Big Trouble in Little

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China and Escape from New York, but this is I

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think his first actual one he’s writing that’s

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going to be horror. So I’m stoked for that and

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the fact that he’s teaming up with his wife and

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partner that Sandy King’s putting it out on Storm

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King Productions. If you’re listening, Sandy,

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let’s talk. I’m excited to see what he’s doing.

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He’s also a very good writer. Before you guys

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came over, I was reading the script, They Live,

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which is written by Frank Armitage, which is

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one of John Carpenter’s pen names. And Martin,

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not Martin Quartermaster. Yeah, it is Martin

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Quartermaster, I think. Shit, it’s something

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Quartermaster took as his other one. But yeah,

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I mean, I’ve read a handful of his scripts and

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he’s a great writer. Right on. Right on. Yeah.

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So this is about an abandoned cathedral in downtown

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L .A. Classic, where no one notices that no notices

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as they pass and it contains a dark evil lurking

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in it. Something like that. That’s that’s all

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I really know about it. But check it out. It’s

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going to come out on August 4th. Happy birthday

00:10:40.049 –> 00:10:42.470
to me. Oh, wow. A little present. That’s your

00:10:42.470 –> 00:10:45.149
birthday. About 10 days later. But yes, it’s

00:10:45.149 –> 00:10:49.299
still August. OK, so moving on, keeping with

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the theme of interesting promotion, I guess,

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Guillermo del Toro directed and started a commercial

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for Patron Tequila, and it’s called The Perfect

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Pour. And essentially it starts with a close

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up on Guillermo or like a mid shot, you know,

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pouring some Patron and talking about it as it

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pulls out, you see a his crew and then it’s a

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skeleton crew making the the film, but they’re

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all like kind of I think they’re either CG or

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stop motion. I think they’re probably CG, but

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it’s kind of it’s kind of a fun little. Spooky.

00:11:25.179 –> 00:11:26.899
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. Like the legit

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skeleton crew. Yeah, so clever. You check that

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out on the show notes as well. They do a shot

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of one of the skeletons drinking it and it like

00:11:33.960 –> 00:11:36.379
going through his bones and. Yeah, yeah, they’re

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all kind of like up to mischief. It’s like I

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think it’s a one take like the camera pulls away.

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I watched it a few days ago and like it, you

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know. That they forget the details, but you know,

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it’s it’s kind of what you’re thinking and it’s

00:11:49.970 –> 00:11:51.529
great They’re like a little like, you know, kind

00:11:51.529 –> 00:11:54.289
of like uh, is it jason on the argonauts? Yeah,

00:11:54.289 –> 00:11:56.429
the hairy. Uh, that’s what I say. Yeah. Yeah,

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it’s like that vibe And then last but not least

00:11:59.210 –> 00:12:02.529
we have some notable deaths this week Jamie blanks,

00:12:02.529 –> 00:12:05.649
uh who directed urban legend and valentine passed

00:12:05.649 –> 00:12:09.490
away unexpectedly at the age of 54 in australia

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We lost You know kick -ass butt of many jokes

00:12:13.789 –> 00:12:16.029
chuck norris Guess he’s not really the butt of

00:12:16.029 –> 00:12:17.970
the joke. He’s kind of a well, you’re right.

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Look at the joke, right? His title horror movies,

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I would say is silent rage. Oh It’s basically

00:12:26.070 –> 00:12:29.230
Chuck Norris first Michael Myers So many words,

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but it’s it’s a I grew up on it used to play

00:12:31.570 –> 00:12:34.909
a show on like Fox when I was a kid, huh? Nice.

00:12:35.309 –> 00:12:38.129
Nice and there were some other deaths, too Oh,

00:12:38.129 –> 00:12:41.850
in the comic world, we lost Sam Keith, who created

00:12:41.850 –> 00:12:46.149
the Max and co -created the Sandman. He had been

00:12:46.149 –> 00:12:49.250
fighting Lewy body dementia. And eventually that

00:12:49.250 –> 00:12:51.490
just kind of took him over the weekend, according

00:12:51.490 –> 00:12:54.169
to his family. And, you know, it’s pretty sad

00:12:54.169 –> 00:12:58.350
when any sort of, you know, hero or icon dies

00:12:58.350 –> 00:13:00.509
or whatever. But it just seems that as it is

00:13:00.509 –> 00:13:02.289
older, we get, you know, we’re losing more and

00:13:02.289 –> 00:13:05.710
more. And it’s very sad to see someone who had

00:13:05.710 –> 00:13:08.500
contributed so much to comics. Yeah. And there

00:13:08.500 –> 00:13:10.980
was the actor from Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

00:13:11.000 –> 00:13:13.700
What was his name? I don’t know. Yeah. Well,

00:13:13.700 –> 00:13:15.100
you were talking about this right before recording.

00:13:15.320 –> 00:13:18.679
I don’t know. But one of the one of the stars

00:13:18.679 –> 00:13:22.200
of Buffy, the Joss Whedon series passed as well.

00:13:22.419 –> 00:13:25.100
I’ll look it up real quick. Just he was also

00:13:25.100 –> 00:13:27.480
I know he was in Children of the Corn Part Three.

00:13:27.940 –> 00:13:30.100
Nicholas Brendan. Nicholas Brendan. Nicholas

00:13:30.100 –> 00:13:34.220
Brendan has passed. Yeah. Unfortunately, Children

00:13:34.220 –> 00:13:37.779
of the Corn Part Three. Yeah. I was because I

00:13:37.779 –> 00:13:39.139
wouldn’t have happened. I was like, did he do

00:13:39.139 –> 00:13:41.559
anything else? Horror related. That was that

00:13:41.559 –> 00:13:43.840
was the one. Yeah, it’s hard to say that. But

00:13:43.840 –> 00:13:45.519
I mean, Buffy technically is kind of horror,

00:13:45.539 –> 00:13:50.159
but it’s also it’s like it’s teen. Or, you know,

00:13:50.360 –> 00:13:52.019
but it also ties into because we were talking

00:13:52.019 –> 00:13:53.740
about Buffy the Vampires later in the last episode.

00:13:53.740 –> 00:13:55.659
Yeah, true. You know, that’s still pretty. Yeah.

00:13:55.860 –> 00:13:58.720
And no, it is. It is. It’s just not very like

00:13:58.720 –> 00:14:03.690
scary, I guess. Yeah. OK, so. Guess we can talk

00:14:03.690 –> 00:14:05.889
about way way. I do have one one thing I wanted

00:14:05.889 –> 00:14:08.850
to bring up Yes, that’s news not to belabor this

00:14:08.850 –> 00:14:12.370
but the Rondo Awards have been announced if you

00:14:12.370 –> 00:14:16.769
don’t know what they are They are the Rondo Hatton

00:14:16.769 –> 00:14:19.950
classic horror awards with a multitude of categories

00:14:19.950 –> 00:14:23.629
ranging from best film of 2025 to best podcast

00:14:23.629 –> 00:14:27.149
to best documentary among others the awards honor

00:14:27.149 –> 00:14:29.389
journalism scholarship and film preservation

00:14:29.389 –> 00:14:34.059
in the genre If you’ve never heard the name Rondo

00:14:34.059 –> 00:14:36.980
Hatton, he was a journalist turned actor. His

00:14:36.980 –> 00:14:39.440
acting days were back from like the 1920s to

00:14:39.440 –> 00:14:43.500
the 40s. He was in the stuff like The Pearl of

00:14:43.500 –> 00:14:45.580
Death, The Spider Woman Strikes Back, and House

00:14:45.580 –> 00:14:48.279
of Horrors. So he made his mark in the genre

00:14:48.279 –> 00:14:51.539
and the wards are modeled after him. But Rondo

00:14:51.539 –> 00:14:56.179
had Akra Malgi. I don’t know if I’m saying that

00:14:56.179 –> 00:14:58.919
right. Those type of features which are abnormal

00:14:58.919 –> 00:15:01.039
enlargement of the bones and tissues, especially

00:15:01.039 –> 00:15:05.960
in the face and feet. So the award reflects his

00:15:05.960 –> 00:15:09.960
look as the creeper in House of Horrors. He definitely

00:15:09.960 –> 00:15:12.980
has a look of a character actor in a horror movie.

00:15:13.039 –> 00:15:16.559
Right. And I wanted to say, friends of the show,

00:15:17.139 –> 00:15:19.299
David Delvall and Pat Jankiewicz are nominated

00:15:19.299 –> 00:15:22.899
for different things. Both have played on our

00:15:22.899 –> 00:15:25.139
trivia team. David, I believe, has actually won

00:15:25.139 –> 00:15:28.379
a Rondo before. And I will say one of my favorite

00:15:28.379 –> 00:15:31.100
horror podcasts, Colors of the Dark, is nominated

00:15:31.100 –> 00:15:34.340
as well. So that’s kind of cool. All right. Shout

00:15:34.340 –> 00:15:37.879
out to Rebecca. Oh, and if you want to vote,

00:15:37.980 –> 00:15:41.659
head over to rondoaward .com to check out the

00:15:41.659 –> 00:15:44.279
categories. You have until May 1st. Nice. And

00:15:44.279 –> 00:15:47.000
it’s also worth mentioning that in the short

00:15:47.000 –> 00:15:50.120
film that Peter and I just co -directed, David

00:15:50.279 –> 00:15:54.259
Delval is the executive producer and Pat Jankiewicz’s

00:15:54.259 –> 00:15:57.679
are a surprise, surprise monster, I guess you

00:15:57.679 –> 00:16:00.120
might say, in it. He’s a surprise in it. We’ll

00:16:00.120 –> 00:16:01.360
just put it that way. Yeah, he’s a surprise.

00:16:01.919 –> 00:16:05.340
He is a surprise. He’s full of surprises too.

00:16:05.980 –> 00:16:10.179
Love you, Pat. So coming this week, there aren’t

00:16:10.179 –> 00:16:13.519
a lot of things coming out on March 27th. That’s

00:16:13.519 –> 00:16:17.379
the weekend in question here. You’ll probably

00:16:17.379 –> 00:16:19.120
hear this the week after that, so it’ll be in

00:16:19.120 –> 00:16:23.090
theaters. The main kind of horror thing dropping

00:16:23.090 –> 00:16:25.830
is The Third Parent, which is written by David

00:16:25.830 –> 00:16:29.610
Michaels and Elias Witherow, directed by David

00:16:29.610 –> 00:16:32.210
Michaels and starring Rob Lowe, Crispin Glover,

00:16:32.490 –> 00:16:36.370
and Rosalyn Sanchez. Crispin Glover. I met him

00:16:36.370 –> 00:16:39.389
the other day. Oh, yeah? I did. From our friend

00:16:39.389 –> 00:16:42.169
Jim. He was at the studio. I love Crispin Glover.

00:16:42.250 –> 00:16:46.190
That was a random encounter. Jim’s full of surprises.

00:16:46.799 –> 00:16:49.879
So amidst the Fourth of July celebration, a disturbing

00:16:49.879 –> 00:16:53.000
figure named Tommy Taffy emerges disguising himself

00:16:53.000 –> 00:16:55.879
as a human to infiltrate a suburban neighborhood

00:16:55.879 –> 00:16:58.840
and impose authoritarian rule over unsuspecting

00:16:58.840 –> 00:17:02.559
family. So it sounds interesting. I don’t know

00:17:02.559 –> 00:17:05.619
much about it beyond what I’ve said. You guys

00:17:05.619 –> 00:17:08.039
know anything? I don’t know anything. I mean,

00:17:08.079 –> 00:17:10.380
just in general, but like I am very excited that

00:17:10.380 –> 00:17:13.250
Rob Lowe is coming back. To the screen and then

00:17:13.250 –> 00:17:15.150
with chris well the big screen, I guess he’s

00:17:15.150 –> 00:17:17.230
been on the little screen Yeah, like I haven’t

00:17:17.230 –> 00:17:19.750
seen him in like a on the big screen or in a

00:17:19.750 –> 00:17:21.930
new movie in a very long time It’s actually like

00:17:21.930 –> 00:17:24.289
a big published one. Uh, so that’s cool. He’s

00:17:24.289 –> 00:17:27.430
been doing a lot of like well, I was ozark and

00:17:27.430 –> 00:17:30.329
uh He did some like reality shows with his kids

00:17:30.329 –> 00:17:33.769
at one point. Yeah, in fact my dad, uh taped

00:17:33.769 –> 00:17:36.269
with bravo and his kids for their reality show

00:17:36.269 –> 00:17:40.319
they were exploring like Paranormal phenomenon

00:17:40.319 –> 00:17:43.039
in it. I think and for those you know, one knows

00:17:43.039 –> 00:17:46.460
this but uh My dad was like one of the main people

00:17:46.460 –> 00:17:48.059
involved in remote viewing in the government

00:17:48.059 –> 00:17:50.099
psychic espionage program So they brought him

00:17:50.099 –> 00:17:52.579
on to you on the episode they did about that.

00:17:52.720 –> 00:17:57.619
So That’s cool. Yeah also in streaming stranger

00:17:57.619 –> 00:18:01.200
things tills from 85, which is an animated spin

00:18:01.200 –> 00:18:04.859
-off of stranger things is It’s gonna be dropping

00:18:04.859 –> 00:18:08.250
on Netflix April 23rd. However The week before

00:18:08.250 –> 00:18:10.509
that, they just announced that you’ll be able

00:18:10.509 –> 00:18:12.349
to see the first two episodes in theaters for

00:18:12.349 –> 00:18:14.630
those interested. So I guess our little rumor

00:18:14.630 –> 00:18:17.410
we heard about a Stranger Things film is not

00:18:17.410 –> 00:18:20.329
really true, but it’s, you know, sort of true.

00:18:21.029 –> 00:18:25.210
I mean, not to go on a tirade about this, but

00:18:25.210 –> 00:18:28.069
I’m just they could never let a good thing go.

00:18:28.069 –> 00:18:30.930
You know, like not totally squeeze every dollar

00:18:30.930 –> 00:18:33.430
from that. Like The Walking Dead had like, I

00:18:33.430 –> 00:18:35.750
think at least three spinoffs. I could be wrong.

00:18:36.179 –> 00:18:39.160
It in that that was by the time I think a lot

00:18:39.160 –> 00:18:40.940
of us were fatigued by what they were doing.

00:18:40.940 –> 00:18:44.960
Oh, yeah In the comics to tons of comics tons.

00:18:45.759 –> 00:18:48.680
Oh Yeah, I guess one of the things about comics

00:18:48.680 –> 00:18:50.539
that I find hard is like keeping track of like

00:18:50.539 –> 00:18:54.019
all the different like You know parallel like

00:18:54.019 –> 00:18:55.559
you have Superman, but you have Superman verse

00:18:55.559 –> 00:18:57.900
Batman miniseries Then you have the like, you

00:18:57.900 –> 00:19:00.440
know this version of Superman and that you know

00:19:00.440 –> 00:19:02.019
And it’s like kind of hard to know what it really

00:19:02.019 –> 00:19:04.359
how they all fit together, you know It’s a lot

00:19:04.359 –> 00:19:06.750
but it’s that way, you know Just in general in

00:19:06.750 –> 00:19:08.230
comics, but yeah, there is that fatigue with

00:19:08.230 –> 00:19:14.650
The Walking Dead. Yes. Yeah. And also 28 years

00:19:14.650 –> 00:19:17.609
later, Bone Temple’s dropping March 31st on Netflix.

00:19:18.009 –> 00:19:19.809
I’m stoked. Yeah, I haven’t seen that. I’m so

00:19:19.809 –> 00:19:22.029
excited to see it. Yeah. I really, really like

00:19:22.029 –> 00:19:24.549
that one. Right on. Right on. The beginning is

00:19:24.549 –> 00:19:28.309
just fucking. Yeah, it comes out swinging. Did

00:19:28.309 –> 00:19:30.589
you see the last one? I did. I was a little bored

00:19:30.589 –> 00:19:33.390
with it. I liked it, but I was a little bored.

00:19:33.589 –> 00:19:37.630
It’s the last one’s more Weird I think but it

00:19:37.630 –> 00:19:39.410
picks up with the characters at the end and I

00:19:39.410 –> 00:19:41.309
did not like those characters at the end of that

00:19:41.309 –> 00:19:43.750
But yes, it goes in a very different direction

00:19:43.750 –> 00:19:45.369
Yeah, so that’s I wouldn’t check out the nether

00:19:45.369 –> 00:19:46.829
one because I feel like that does come out swinging

00:19:46.829 –> 00:19:49.410
It looks like and it looks brutal and I’m like,

00:19:49.410 –> 00:19:56.750
there we go Give me that place. Yeah All right,

00:19:57.009 –> 00:19:59.549
so in honor of April fools, we’re gonna get into

00:19:59.549 –> 00:20:02.329
our main segment which is about twist endings

00:20:02.329 –> 00:20:05.369
But Peter you want to take it away? Yeah, so

00:20:05.369 –> 00:20:09.109
just a heads up people We can’t really do this

00:20:09.109 –> 00:20:12.349
without bringing up movies with twist endings

00:20:12.349 –> 00:20:16.109
So I’m gonna give you a heads up of what we’re

00:20:16.109 –> 00:20:19.069
what movies may get mentioned in their twists

00:20:19.069 –> 00:20:22.490
may get spoiled Yeah, yeah, we’re gonna try to

00:20:22.490 –> 00:20:24.250
avoid spoilers, but you know and a lot of these

00:20:24.250 –> 00:20:26.849
are older films that you probably are familiar

00:20:26.849 –> 00:20:29.190
with but you never know so just Be aware there

00:20:29.190 –> 00:20:30.849
might be some spoilers, but we’re going to kind

00:20:30.849 –> 00:20:33.029
of try to prep you for that. So there’s episodes

00:20:33.029 –> 00:20:35.670
of The Twilight Zone, The Prestige Fight Club,

00:20:35.789 –> 00:20:38.829
The Sixth Sense, Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, Skeleton

00:20:38.829 –> 00:20:41.990
Key, Forbidden Planet, High Tension, Gone Girl,

00:20:42.150 –> 00:20:45.690
The Game, basically any M. Night Shalman movie,

00:20:46.569 –> 00:20:49.470
Saw, Old Boy, April Fool’s Day, Sleepaway Camp,

00:20:49.890 –> 00:20:52.670
Orphan, Angel Heart, Carnival of Souls, Soiling

00:20:52.670 –> 00:20:55.819
Green, The Wicker Man, The Northman. Psycho the

00:20:55.819 –> 00:20:58.500
imitation the usual suspects cabin in the woods

00:20:58.500 –> 00:21:01.819
planet of the apes arrival x -majina the others

00:21:01.819 –> 00:21:04.980
Eden Lake Serbian film and kill list we might

00:21:04.980 –> 00:21:07.960
even do a couple others Possibly Allison’s birthday.

00:21:08.240 –> 00:21:10.740
Yeah, so you may or may not talk about those

00:21:10.740 –> 00:21:13.980
and there might be some But the good news is

00:21:13.980 –> 00:21:15.920
not all three of us have seen all these movies

00:21:15.920 –> 00:21:18.220
So right one of us might bring up something that

00:21:18.220 –> 00:21:21.079
we get spoiled. Yeah, yeah, so taking each other

00:21:21.079 –> 00:21:25.759
down with us So twist endings basically have

00:21:25.759 –> 00:21:28.319
been around since we’ve been telling stories

00:21:28.319 –> 00:21:32.000
You could look at the Trojan horse myth Greek

00:21:32.000 –> 00:21:34.339
soldiers breach Troy by leaving a giant Trojan

00:21:34.339 –> 00:21:37.079
horse who the Trojans bring into their city as

00:21:37.079 –> 00:21:40.019
a trophy and voila It’s hiding Greek soldiers

00:21:40.019 –> 00:21:42.839
who then help them win the war surprise. Yeah

00:21:42.839 –> 00:21:47.259
Shakespeare had had twists You know, it’s it’s

00:21:47.259 –> 00:21:50.099
I’m sure people have lived experience or there’s

00:21:50.099 –> 00:21:53.519
a twist in Story of their life, right? I mean

00:21:53.519 –> 00:21:56.000
people are just suckers for that, aren’t we?

00:21:58.359 –> 00:22:04.359
It’s yeah, so if we get into what twist we’re

00:22:04.359 –> 00:22:07.480
I think specifically focused on twist endings

00:22:07.480 –> 00:22:12.519
And those come from narrative deception. So usually

00:22:12.519 –> 00:22:15.519
you think of unreliable narrators red herrings

00:22:16.289 –> 00:22:19.630
and selective information withholding with the

00:22:19.630 –> 00:22:23.109
hoped effect that a twist ending will reveal

00:22:23.109 –> 00:22:26.710
a shocking yet logical revelation that recontextualizes

00:22:26.710 –> 00:22:29.029
how to view the movie. So it’s kind of like a

00:22:29.029 –> 00:22:31.329
good magic trick. It’s not what you see and know.

00:22:31.450 –> 00:22:33.690
It’s what you don’t see and don’t know until

00:22:33.690 –> 00:22:38.789
it is revealed. I mentioned the cabinet of Dr.

00:22:38.970 –> 00:22:43.059
Caligari and I coincidentally watched that. Not

00:22:43.059 –> 00:22:44.380
with regards to this, because I didn’t know it

00:22:44.380 –> 00:22:46.240
had a twist ending, but that’s considered the

00:22:46.240 –> 00:22:49.299
first film with a twist ending. You have the

00:22:49.299 –> 00:22:51.779
Twilight Zone that was big on twists. This is

00:22:51.779 –> 00:22:55.539
kind of a brief history crash course on this

00:22:55.539 –> 00:23:00.000
stuff. So you have modern day shows. You guys

00:23:00.000 –> 00:23:02.940
probably have seen Black Mirror that often each

00:23:02.940 –> 00:23:05.660
episode usually has a twist ending. But even

00:23:05.660 –> 00:23:08.420
more narrative driven series thrive on twists

00:23:08.420 –> 00:23:13.920
like Orphan Black, for example. Should we go

00:23:13.920 –> 00:23:16.319
discuss what the difference between a reveal

00:23:16.319 –> 00:23:19.299
and a twist is? Oh, what do you think it is,

00:23:19.420 –> 00:23:27.440
Taffeta? Next question. It can be tough, right?

00:23:29.119 –> 00:23:32.880
I would say a reveal clarifies or solves a mystery

00:23:32.880 –> 00:23:37.880
while a twist now makes everything make sense,

00:23:38.000 –> 00:23:42.299
right? That’s the… That’s what the reveal is.

00:23:42.700 –> 00:23:46.019
It brings a conclusion to, all right, yeah, this

00:23:46.019 –> 00:23:50.200
makes sense. A twist ending will shock you and

00:23:50.200 –> 00:23:52.079
make you consider what you saw previously that

00:23:52.079 –> 00:23:56.640
led to this. And twist endings usually have a

00:23:56.640 –> 00:23:59.299
reveal as well. So that’s probably why it’s kind

00:23:59.299 –> 00:24:01.740
of confusing to… Right, you need the reveal

00:24:01.740 –> 00:24:04.480
in order to change your perception of the film.

00:24:05.559 –> 00:24:07.200
Just like in the trick in general kind of like

00:24:07.200 –> 00:24:08.960
you mentioned the prestige like they even break

00:24:08.960 –> 00:24:11.440
that down like in the movie with the actual Prestige

00:24:11.440 –> 00:24:13.619
is of like any sort of like magic trick. Yeah,

00:24:13.619 –> 00:24:16.500
that’s why that movie is so brilliant Yeah, that

00:24:16.500 –> 00:24:18.680
was a good one and it was it was funny because

00:24:18.680 –> 00:24:22.779
Here’s a spoiler. I was like, what was the twist

00:24:22.779 –> 00:24:25.779
because I remember the Christian Bale was a twin,

00:24:25.819 –> 00:24:29.539
right? And then but that’s not the twist. The

00:24:29.539 –> 00:24:33.420
twist is a Hugh Jackman was using Tesla Tesla’s

00:24:33.849 –> 00:24:36.769
tool to clone himself, to kill all of him or

00:24:36.769 –> 00:24:40.309
his to compete against that. Yeah. Fucking crazy.

00:24:40.430 –> 00:24:42.549
It’s not magic. It was science. Human nature.

00:24:42.809 –> 00:24:46.390
Right. But the funny thing is, like, I used to

00:24:46.390 –> 00:24:48.250
practice magic. And so when I was watching this,

00:24:48.250 –> 00:24:49.670
I think this was around the time I was learning.

00:24:49.869 –> 00:24:54.089
Like I was 10 steps behind the whole time. It’s

00:24:54.089 –> 00:24:57.509
it’s bad. A good twist, I think you is truly

00:24:57.509 –> 00:24:59.750
like surprising, you know, because like if you

00:24:59.750 –> 00:25:02.109
figure it out, like, I don’t know, they didn’t

00:25:02.109 –> 00:25:05.299
do a good enough job. Well, but sometimes it

00:25:05.299 –> 00:25:08.140
just kind of depends who catches what processes

00:25:08.140 –> 00:25:10.680
what it what thought crosses your mind when a

00:25:10.680 –> 00:25:13.240
hint is dropped, right? You know, I feel like

00:25:13.240 –> 00:25:16.440
that’s a big big part of it Yeah, do a either

00:25:16.440 –> 00:25:20.059
you remember the first twist ending you saw or

00:25:20.059 –> 00:25:23.000
something that comes to mind Yeah for me it was

00:25:23.000 –> 00:25:24.819
literally watching April Fool’s Day back in the

00:25:24.819 –> 00:25:26.819
day like that movie that was one the first ones

00:25:26.819 –> 00:25:28.880
I watched because I was a big horror fan growing

00:25:28.880 –> 00:25:31.759
up and I watched all these 80 movies and Uh,

00:25:31.880 –> 00:25:33.380
I remember at the end of it, I was like, what

00:25:33.380 –> 00:25:35.920
the fuck? Okay. It was clever. Um, you know,

00:25:35.920 –> 00:25:37.299
I don’t want to spoil it too much, but essentially,

00:25:37.299 –> 00:25:38.980
you know, it’s a party and all these people come

00:25:38.980 –> 00:25:40.799
and hang out and then like all these like grizzly

00:25:40.799 –> 00:25:42.559
and brutal murders like start happening. And

00:25:42.559 –> 00:25:44.839
then at the end you realize, oh, it’s like this.

00:25:45.000 –> 00:25:46.019
Are we, are we just boiling? Are we going to

00:25:46.019 –> 00:25:48.640
go in all in? Yeah. Essentially like, you know,

00:25:48.779 –> 00:25:50.660
none of these murders, despite you watching them

00:25:50.660 –> 00:25:53.099
and seeing him is actually like actual murders.

00:25:53.200 –> 00:25:56.200
The twist is at the end, it’s just like, um,

00:25:56.259 –> 00:25:58.500
Muffy doing her whole, like she’s turning her

00:25:58.559 –> 00:26:01.039
place into a murder mystery house. And so everybody

00:26:01.039 –> 00:26:03.819
was like in on it, but didn’t know everyone was

00:26:03.819 –> 00:26:06.140
in on it. They got punked. Yeah. So it’s just,

00:26:06.180 –> 00:26:08.339
you know, the the big reveal and twist is like

00:26:08.339 –> 00:26:10.740
nobody’s actually murdered despite literally

00:26:10.740 –> 00:26:12.619
seeing this happen. You’re like, how did they

00:26:12.619 –> 00:26:14.440
survive that? So is it truly a horror movie?

00:26:15.180 –> 00:26:17.019
I don’t you know, that’s it. Is it truly a horror

00:26:17.019 –> 00:26:18.519
movie? Because at the end, like there’s this

00:26:18.519 –> 00:26:20.799
big relief. It’s like, oh, all these people didn’t

00:26:20.799 –> 00:26:24.720
die. It’s just, you know. A test for her murder

00:26:24.720 –> 00:26:27.299
mystery. Maybe that’s the joke, right? It’s not

00:26:27.299 –> 00:26:29.859
actually a horror movie. You’re not watching.

00:26:30.119 –> 00:26:32.099
But it’s also what’s great about is it’s in the

00:26:32.099 –> 00:26:35.119
name. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And so that’s it away.

00:26:35.220 –> 00:26:37.099
That’s what appealed to me back in the day is

00:26:37.099 –> 00:26:39.299
that I like the cover of it. And I remember watching

00:26:39.299 –> 00:26:42.380
it and being like, oh, this is different. OK,

00:26:42.400 –> 00:26:45.640
cool. I’m in. Yeah, I like that. Christopher,

00:26:45.700 –> 00:26:49.339
what about you? You know, I think mine’s going

00:26:49.339 –> 00:26:51.339
to be I feel like a basic bitch saying this,

00:26:51.480 –> 00:26:55.099
but It was the usual suspects back in 1995. I

00:26:55.099 –> 00:26:58.000
was like you know, probably 14 or 15 when that

00:26:58.000 –> 00:26:59.839
movie came out at like the prime age to watch

00:26:59.839 –> 00:27:03.940
it and the it’s framed around this prisoner in

00:27:03.940 –> 00:27:06.180
an interrogation telling the story about a mastermind

00:27:06.180 –> 00:27:09.579
criminal Kaiser so say and you know, he’s like

00:27:09.579 –> 00:27:15.660
this frail fragile guy and the reveal and Where

00:27:15.660 –> 00:27:17.680
you realize it’s a twist is just like kind of

00:27:17.680 –> 00:27:20.329
the last shot When he’s walking away and he this

00:27:20.329 –> 00:27:22.190
limp that he’s had the whole movie just become

00:27:22.190 –> 00:27:25.150
he straightens it out and becomes like Physically

00:27:25.150 –> 00:27:27.490
stronger and less frail and you put it together

00:27:27.490 –> 00:27:30.089
that like he was he was the bad guy all along

00:27:30.089 –> 00:27:34.069
verbal kent verbal kent. Yeah, and also uh I

00:27:34.069 –> 00:27:37.650
I just uh This is a little side topic here, but

00:27:37.650 –> 00:27:39.890
I just realized that the name verbal kent is

00:27:39.890 –> 00:27:42.859
like Right. It’s like kind of a you know a lot

00:27:42.859 –> 00:27:44.920
of times in writing films the names of characters

00:27:44.920 –> 00:27:47.079
This is maybe more slightly older fashion way

00:27:47.079 –> 00:27:48.799
of writing scripts, but a lot of times the names

00:27:48.799 –> 00:27:50.779
indicate something about the character Yeah,

00:27:51.019 –> 00:27:52.720
and I think I just realized that that one’s like

00:27:52.720 –> 00:27:56.279
oh He’s the one talking lying. He’s like you

00:27:56.279 –> 00:27:59.900
know right anyways That had a lot of hype when

00:27:59.900 –> 00:28:03.779
it came out. Yeah, it’s a very notorious twist

00:28:03.779 –> 00:28:05.740
you know Mm -hmm. That’s definitely one that,

00:28:05.839 –> 00:28:06.900
you know, when you asked, like, what was one

00:28:06.900 –> 00:28:08.740
that, like, shocked me, that would, that was

00:28:08.740 –> 00:28:10.099
the one that was on my list, where I was like,

00:28:10.099 –> 00:28:13.559
what? Well, no, one I haven’t seen, and I won’t

00:28:13.559 –> 00:28:17.180
even say the twist, but the crying game that

00:28:17.180 –> 00:28:19.460
came out a few years before that. I remember

00:28:19.460 –> 00:28:21.359
that with that also. That was your first one?

00:28:21.579 –> 00:28:24.000
I know. I’ve never seen it. Oh, yeah. But it’s

00:28:24.000 –> 00:28:27.339
referenced in Pet Detect, Ace Ventura, right?

00:28:27.359 –> 00:28:30.859
Good old Ace Ventura. But that was one in the

00:28:30.859 –> 00:28:33.019
zeitgeist that jumped out at me. The first…

00:28:32.890 –> 00:28:36.670
Twist I remember seeing was when I was a little

00:28:36.670 –> 00:28:39.349
kid and I probably didn’t. It’s an adult movie.

00:28:39.349 –> 00:28:42.450
It was a Soylent Green. Oh, no, not that kind

00:28:42.450 –> 00:28:45.750
of adult. I was like, there’s a lot of twists

00:28:45.750 –> 00:28:50.569
in those. OK, so the first twist I saw that I

00:28:50.569 –> 00:28:54.089
remember was when I was a kid, I was like seven

00:28:54.089 –> 00:28:56.569
or eight and at a friend’s and his parents put

00:28:56.569 –> 00:28:59.450
on Soylent Green. And I think it was probably

00:28:59.450 –> 00:29:01.349
over my head in a lot of ways, because it’s it’s

00:29:01.349 –> 00:29:04.960
very. Mature for you know a kid. It’s not right.

00:29:04.960 –> 00:29:07.400
It’s kind of intellectual. Yeah, yeah, but I

00:29:07.400 –> 00:29:09.980
mean I remember it seemed dystopian I could pick

00:29:09.980 –> 00:29:12.839
up on that and everyone’s sweating and food is

00:29:12.839 –> 00:29:17.059
scarce and so then when And I’m gonna spoil it

00:29:17.059 –> 00:29:19.599
so I think green is humans or as people if you

00:29:19.599 –> 00:29:22.859
don’t know that yeah, it’s it’s So I was like

00:29:22.859 –> 00:29:26.460
oh wow that’s kind of crazy But it didn’t impact

00:29:26.460 –> 00:29:28.400
me that much because I don’t think I was like

00:29:28.400 –> 00:29:31.779
as riveted right but it did jump out at me. Right,

00:29:31.819 –> 00:29:33.980
right. That is another notorious one, I think.

00:29:34.079 –> 00:29:35.839
It’s one of my favorites. I love that. It’s based

00:29:35.839 –> 00:29:38.039
off the book, Make Room, Make Room. And it’s

00:29:38.039 –> 00:29:41.460
just it is very it’s it’s very sad and it is

00:29:41.460 –> 00:29:44.099
scary in its own ways. Right. And it’s probably

00:29:44.099 –> 00:29:47.460
our future the way things are going. And you

00:29:47.460 –> 00:29:49.880
you two would say that the first twist you guys

00:29:49.880 –> 00:29:52.319
saw knocked you on your ass, right? I don’t know.

00:29:52.200 –> 00:29:53.599
I don’t know if April Fool’s Day had knocked

00:29:53.599 –> 00:29:55.599
me on my ass as much as I was like, what the

00:29:55.599 –> 00:29:57.940
fuck? But the usual suspects is the one that

00:29:57.940 –> 00:30:00.279
really just kind of left me being like, oh, that’s

00:30:00.279 –> 00:30:02.019
good. Well, you know, and that was the age that

00:30:02.019 –> 00:30:04.759
I really started understanding film as an art

00:30:04.759 –> 00:30:08.859
form rather than just entertainment. And and

00:30:08.859 –> 00:30:11.319
with usual suspects, like it was like kind of

00:30:11.319 –> 00:30:14.519
like, oh, like I feel manipulated in a good way.

00:30:14.859 –> 00:30:17.039
You know, and it was like the first time I really

00:30:17.039 –> 00:30:19.359
like kind of saw cinema is like something that.

00:30:19.549 –> 00:30:22.069
You know, there’s more to than just you know

00:30:22.069 –> 00:30:23.630
an interesting way to spend your time and it

00:30:23.630 –> 00:30:24.710
was kind of probably the beginning of wanting

00:30:24.710 –> 00:30:27.210
to Make films to be perfect. So it was cool.

00:30:27.269 –> 00:30:30.490
It had an impact on me, you know Right. I think

00:30:30.490 –> 00:30:33.490
the the twist that really did the same thing

00:30:33.490 –> 00:30:37.410
to me was the sixth sense Yeah, same like I fell

00:30:37.410 –> 00:30:40.970
hook line and sinker for her. Sure, even though,

00:30:41.130 –> 00:30:45.930
you know at the beginning, you know The the new

00:30:45.930 –> 00:30:48.710
kid on the block what’s his name? Donnie Wahlberg

00:30:48.710 –> 00:30:52.529
Donnie Wahlberg, uh, shoots Bruce Willis. But

00:30:52.529 –> 00:30:53.769
because you see him in the next scene, you’re

00:30:53.769 –> 00:30:55.730
like, oh, or I just assumed I was like, oh, I

00:30:55.730 –> 00:30:58.650
guess he’s not. And then you rewatch it. And

00:30:58.650 –> 00:31:01.029
it’s like all the scenes where he’s with the

00:31:01.029 –> 00:31:03.569
kid’s mom. He’s not the mom’s not talking to

00:31:03.569 –> 00:31:06.410
him. Like, it’s really well done. Really well

00:31:06.410 –> 00:31:08.950
done. I actually rewatched it after learning

00:31:08.950 –> 00:31:11.640
the twist and. The same as you like I watch it

00:31:11.640 –> 00:31:13.660
specifically like how do they do that? Yeah,

00:31:13.660 –> 00:31:16.180
yeah, yeah, cuz it’s it’s it really contextualized

00:31:16.180 –> 00:31:18.259
what you’re seeing on screen Yeah, because it

00:31:18.259 –> 00:31:20.140
all was plausible. It didn’t feel like it was

00:31:20.140 –> 00:31:22.420
cheating which is what I an issue I have with

00:31:22.420 –> 00:31:24.740
some twist endings I agree 100 % and actually

00:31:24.740 –> 00:31:26.700
the same year there was right around then there

00:31:26.700 –> 00:31:28.519
was a number of them and they all were really

00:31:28.519 –> 00:31:32.019
effective to me and That one was one that knocked

00:31:32.019 –> 00:31:33.759
me in my ass and the other one was fight club

00:31:33.759 –> 00:31:39.500
and I was also 99 and I wasn’t aware I think

00:31:39.480 –> 00:31:42.799
of the twist in that when I saw it. So but but

00:31:42.799 –> 00:31:44.920
like just I mean, it was Fincher and he’s a genius

00:31:44.920 –> 00:31:47.480
and like just the way that was all directed and

00:31:47.480 –> 00:31:49.599
came together. Like, I mean, what’s interesting

00:31:49.599 –> 00:31:52.480
when like kind of researching twist endings is

00:31:52.480 –> 00:31:55.380
you do realize that David Fincher has a lot of

00:31:55.380 –> 00:31:57.400
movies with twist endings. It’s not just M. Shalom

00:31:57.400 –> 00:31:59.460
Knight. Right. M. Knight. I’m going to say his

00:31:59.460 –> 00:32:01.380
name wrong. I back. I can never say I get it

00:32:01.380 –> 00:32:03.640
mixed up. We apologize to you, M. Knight. That’s

00:32:03.640 –> 00:32:07.400
it. Yeah. But, you know, he Fincher had. the

00:32:07.400 –> 00:32:11.180
game, which I think is phenomenal. We were talking

00:32:11.180 –> 00:32:15.519
about seven is, you know, is that a twist or

00:32:15.519 –> 00:32:18.140
reveal? We were talking about that earlier. And

00:32:18.140 –> 00:32:20.660
for the listeners, if you’re thinking about it,

00:32:20.660 –> 00:32:25.099
I hope you’ve seen that one. Because the premise

00:32:25.099 –> 00:32:29.339
is you have a classic serial killer who is killing

00:32:29.339 –> 00:32:32.500
people and each one represents a different one

00:32:32.500 –> 00:32:38.359
of the seven deadly sins. And the end of it is,

00:32:38.359 –> 00:32:40.740
you know, meme worthy. It’s just kind of one

00:32:40.740 –> 00:32:44.579
of those great endings because it’s the the spoiler

00:32:44.579 –> 00:32:48.319
Brad Pitt’s wife’s head in a box. And then Brad

00:32:48.319 –> 00:32:52.099
Pitt lashes out and kills the person in wrath,

00:32:52.099 –> 00:32:55.019
completing the. It’s so classic that we actually

00:32:55.019 –> 00:32:56.779
watch that in my literature class in college

00:32:56.779 –> 00:32:59.700
in our in my like upper division literature class.

00:33:00.059 –> 00:33:02.079
Yeah. And specifically because of the reveal

00:33:02.079 –> 00:33:04.759
and slash twist. Yeah. He Fincher fought for

00:33:04.759 –> 00:33:08.440
that. Ending and rightfully so but what it’s

00:33:08.440 –> 00:33:12.200
it’s it’s a reveal but the reason you know my

00:33:12.200 –> 00:33:16.160
conclusion that it was a twist was because the

00:33:16.160 –> 00:33:20.079
the twist is Forcing Brad Pitt to reach into

00:33:20.079 –> 00:33:22.940
his character in his nature to kill Kevin Spacey

00:33:22.940 –> 00:33:25.460
and that’s what made You know, it’s so brilliant.

00:33:25.660 –> 00:33:27.859
Right exactly. It’s like the hunter becomes the

00:33:27.859 –> 00:33:31.829
sort of tool Yeah, yeah, you know like the gun

00:33:31.829 –> 00:33:33.769
or yeah. Yeah, that’s like that’s a good way

00:33:33.769 –> 00:33:37.230
of putting it Yeah, and then gone girl has a

00:33:37.230 –> 00:33:39.869
twist. Yeah, I don’t I don’t remember it, but

00:33:39.869 –> 00:33:42.569
Well, it’s she faked her own kidnapping. That’s

00:33:42.569 –> 00:33:45.509
that’s what it was. Yeah But you know one more

00:33:45.509 –> 00:33:48.250
just really I’d love to mention that really knocked

00:33:48.250 –> 00:33:53.549
me on my ass is the others And I was I had just

00:33:53.549 –> 00:33:55.690
moved to LA and was working on films at the time

00:33:55.690 –> 00:33:58.190
and moonlighting at like a video store and so

00:33:58.190 –> 00:34:00.390
I just I was like, what’s this? And I just took

00:34:00.390 –> 00:34:04.029
it home one night to watch. And but it was like

00:34:04.029 –> 00:34:05.930
also kind of the right film, right time for me.

00:34:06.490 –> 00:34:08.809
But like, I thought that was also well done,

00:34:08.909 –> 00:34:10.530
kind of like Sixth Sense, but like a different.

00:34:11.029 –> 00:34:13.550
approach. Yeah, it was almost like the inverse

00:34:13.550 –> 00:34:16.929
of it. It was a POV of the ghosts. Like you’re

00:34:16.929 –> 00:34:19.150
actually like, you know, experiencing like the

00:34:19.150 –> 00:34:21.250
ghosts are the ones that are normally the haunting,

00:34:21.369 –> 00:34:23.130
you know, but in this time, the ghosts are being

00:34:23.130 –> 00:34:24.750
haunted by the living. And I thought that was

00:34:24.750 –> 00:34:28.070
just so good. So good because I did the same

00:34:28.070 –> 00:34:30.050
thing when you go back and you watch it, like

00:34:30.050 –> 00:34:31.989
knowing that they’re actually dead and the hauntings

00:34:31.989 –> 00:34:34.230
are the living. You can like see the windows

00:34:34.230 –> 00:34:36.389
are being open. It’s because the The living are

00:34:36.389 –> 00:34:38.110
trying to like get some light into the house,

00:34:38.110 –> 00:34:40.489
you know, ah, so good. So good. And there’s more

00:34:40.489 –> 00:34:42.789
than one ghost, you know, like a lot of the times

00:34:42.789 –> 00:34:45.250
this trope of the like your dead all along trope

00:34:45.250 –> 00:34:47.349
is usually one ghost. But this was like several.

00:34:47.579 –> 00:34:49.719
So it was like a shared experience. The housekeepers,

00:34:49.719 –> 00:34:51.300
you know, and they all knew they were just waiting

00:34:51.300 –> 00:34:52.940
for them to kind of figure it out. That’s why

00:34:52.940 –> 00:34:54.800
the housekeepers were so patient. And they kept

00:34:54.800 –> 00:34:56.139
saying, you’re going to learn something, you’re

00:34:56.139 –> 00:34:57.639
going to figure it out. And finally, they were

00:34:57.639 –> 00:35:00.099
just tired of, you know, the mom’s character.

00:35:00.099 –> 00:35:01.360
And they were just like, we’re just going to

00:35:01.360 –> 00:35:03.000
go ahead and make it a thing. You know what you’re

00:35:03.000 –> 00:35:05.659
making me? I got to go watch. They force her

00:35:05.659 –> 00:35:07.579
to, like, you know, come to this reconciliation

00:35:07.579 –> 00:35:09.619
of this is what you did. We are all ghosts and

00:35:09.619 –> 00:35:12.329
we are stuck here. So good. Yeah, it’s interesting

00:35:12.329 –> 00:35:15.570
because it’s like the misdirection of the directing

00:35:15.570 –> 00:35:18.969
and just the way it’s structured gets you to

00:35:18.969 –> 00:35:21.030
look to the left and then they’re telling you

00:35:21.030 –> 00:35:22.889
exactly what you should be paying attention to,

00:35:22.929 –> 00:35:25.030
but you’re trying to look at your own clues.

00:35:25.289 –> 00:35:26.869
You know, your comment about it being like a

00:35:26.869 –> 00:35:29.030
magic trick is very on point. Oh, they totally

00:35:29.030 –> 00:35:31.889
are. It’s misdirection. Misdirection, yeah. It’s

00:35:31.889 –> 00:35:35.630
the twists when they’re done great. They’re the

00:35:35.630 –> 00:35:37.030
greatest thing. It’s like the most rewarding

00:35:37.030 –> 00:35:38.849
part of watching the movie. But they’re so hard

00:35:38.849 –> 00:35:41.510
to nail. Yeah, so the next thing I was gonna

00:35:41.510 –> 00:35:43.809
ask is what are some some twist endings that

00:35:43.809 –> 00:35:47.630
you’re just like, oh hell no Well, you know,

00:35:47.630 –> 00:35:52.809
I basically every M. Night Shyamalan film after

00:35:52.809 –> 00:35:55.909
Sixth Sense I feel like Because he kind of became

00:35:55.909 –> 00:35:58.269
known for that and he just tried so hard to keep

00:35:58.269 –> 00:36:00.150
recapture the magic but everybody was looking

00:36:00.150 –> 00:36:03.449
for it and Any honestly it’s hard to do and he

00:36:03.449 –> 00:36:06.389
didn’t really stick to him. Well, I know I thought

00:36:06.389 –> 00:36:09.969
Unbreakable had a pretty cool twist Yeah, that

00:36:09.969 –> 00:36:11.449
one was better. That was one of the better ones.

00:36:11.449 –> 00:36:14.409
I also kind of like the village too. I like the

00:36:14.409 –> 00:36:17.070
village, but I felt like the the twist was a

00:36:17.070 –> 00:36:19.090
little weak, you know, like I really thought

00:36:19.090 –> 00:36:20.590
it was gonna be a little bit more. I didn’t expect

00:36:20.590 –> 00:36:22.610
it to be supernatural or like, you know, super

00:36:22.610 –> 00:36:25.130
like horror. But when they made this reveal,

00:36:25.250 –> 00:36:27.090
I was like, well, and that’s a good that’s a

00:36:27.090 –> 00:36:30.710
good lesson. I think we could learn as for those

00:36:30.710 –> 00:36:33.849
of us out there who are filmmakers is that you

00:36:33.849 –> 00:36:36.170
don’t want to disappoint with your reveal, you

00:36:36.170 –> 00:36:38.530
know, like. It maybe that’s what causes the bad

00:36:38.530 –> 00:36:40.050
reveals like when when it’s revealed you’re like,

00:36:40.110 –> 00:36:43.829
oh, that’s it or like I’ll get into a notoriously

00:36:43.829 –> 00:36:46.230
bad one. Okay. Yeah what I’ll say about the village

00:36:46.230 –> 00:36:49.230
is the thing that Frustrated me about that is

00:36:49.230 –> 00:36:51.449
I the marketing I went in thinking it was gonna

00:36:51.449 –> 00:36:53.210
be a horror movie, right? And then I was like,

00:36:53.309 –> 00:36:55.530
well, where’s the horror? So when it got to the

00:36:55.530 –> 00:36:57.150
twist ending I was like, well at least that’s

00:36:57.150 –> 00:36:58.789
interesting. Yeah, I was a different. Well, there

00:36:58.789 –> 00:37:02.110
was this like We never really saw but the creature

00:37:02.110 –> 00:37:07.300
things. Yeah They kept them in check or whatever.

00:37:07.559 –> 00:37:09.739
Right, so the twist is it was not a horror all

00:37:09.739 –> 00:37:13.840
along. It was just people in wolf’s clothing.

00:37:14.719 –> 00:37:16.500
I didn’t mind the visit. I don’t know if you

00:37:16.500 –> 00:37:18.059
guys saw that. That was the found footage one.

00:37:18.219 –> 00:37:19.760
I actually never saw the video, I don’t think.

00:37:19.800 –> 00:37:22.300
I kind of gave up on him after a few films. It’s

00:37:22.300 –> 00:37:25.019
like, fool me once, okay, you got me, but all

00:37:25.019 –> 00:37:26.440
the other times, like, shame on you, you know.

00:37:27.780 –> 00:37:29.780
What was interesting about that, and I won’t

00:37:29.780 –> 00:37:34.000
even get into the… Twist is that he made it.

00:37:34.079 –> 00:37:35.800
He had three different cuts. One was horror.

00:37:36.039 –> 00:37:38.920
One was comedy. And then he did a horror comedy

00:37:38.920 –> 00:37:40.880
and that was the one that tested the best. So

00:37:40.880 –> 00:37:43.099
that’s why it’s kind of this playful kind of

00:37:43.099 –> 00:37:45.619
horror. Right. There are cloud producers typically.

00:37:46.099 –> 00:37:48.420
But the twist wasn’t bad. Like I was like, oh,

00:37:48.519 –> 00:37:50.840
that’s I’m not disappointed with that. You know,

00:37:50.880 –> 00:37:53.820
I like science, too, but the twist was a little

00:37:53.820 –> 00:37:57.980
weak on that one. Well, something like that.

00:37:58.079 –> 00:37:59.789
I forgot it’s been so long, but like. I think

00:37:59.789 –> 00:38:01.710
the aliens, you kill them with water or something.

00:38:02.449 –> 00:38:05.190
Yeah. That didn’t really feel like a twist. Yeah,

00:38:05.409 –> 00:38:08.010
you’re right. It’s not. But it probably in the

00:38:08.010 –> 00:38:09.469
context of it might have at the time. I think

00:38:09.469 –> 00:38:11.690
it was more supernatural and more like, you know,

00:38:11.809 –> 00:38:14.219
oh my gosh, like, you know what? you know, signs

00:38:14.219 –> 00:38:17.239
like, you know, coincidences is more it felt

00:38:17.239 –> 00:38:19.139
more like what are coincidences? Because at the

00:38:19.139 –> 00:38:21.719
very end, you do have like, you know, what came

00:38:21.719 –> 00:38:23.420
to Phoenix character, which I can’t remember.

00:38:23.780 –> 00:38:25.940
You know, he gets the bat and he sees all this

00:38:25.940 –> 00:38:27.679
water everywhere. And those water cups wouldn’t

00:38:27.679 –> 00:38:29.079
have been there unless the daughter had this

00:38:29.079 –> 00:38:30.880
issue with drinking fresh water and just left

00:38:30.880 –> 00:38:33.099
cups everywhere. So it’s all these like coincidences

00:38:33.099 –> 00:38:35.559
that come together, you know, to make it this

00:38:35.559 –> 00:38:37.440
big twist like, oh, my gosh. And that’s kind

00:38:37.440 –> 00:38:39.039
of what I felt like. So I didn’t really I didn’t

00:38:39.039 –> 00:38:40.599
mind it. I like it. Yeah. I mean, that’s one

00:38:40.599 –> 00:38:42.269
of his better films, I think. Yeah, plus that

00:38:42.269 –> 00:38:43.809
gray alien that walks around the corner. Oh,

00:38:43.949 –> 00:38:49.929
my God. That is one of the best. Yeah. So terrible

00:38:49.929 –> 00:38:52.369
twist. Do you guys have any that come to mind?

00:38:53.110 –> 00:38:58.730
Yes. Sucker punch. OK. So the whole point of

00:38:58.730 –> 00:39:02.289
it and it’s really. dumb reveal, but essentially

00:39:02.289 –> 00:39:04.269
like, you know, the whole time you’re thinking

00:39:04.269 –> 00:39:05.750
there are these girls who are these superheroes

00:39:05.750 –> 00:39:07.510
and they’re doing all these things. But the big

00:39:07.510 –> 00:39:10.150
reveal is they’re actually in a mental institution

00:39:10.150 –> 00:39:12.650
and they’re being like held captive and they’re

00:39:12.650 –> 00:39:15.010
about to get lobotomies. And so like this is

00:39:15.010 –> 00:39:17.489
like in their head, like the whole time their

00:39:17.489 –> 00:39:20.909
escape is to be superheroes or to be, you know,

00:39:21.050 –> 00:39:23.630
dancers. Zack Snyder produced it and everything.

00:39:23.690 –> 00:39:25.329
But I really thought it was going to be just

00:39:25.329 –> 00:39:28.969
a little bit. More I don’t know. I guess more

00:39:28.969 –> 00:39:32.590
superhero and it was everything was Really well

00:39:32.590 –> 00:39:34.329
done as far as like the action scenes, but I

00:39:34.329 –> 00:39:36.369
just felt it was really kind of fucked up at

00:39:36.369 –> 00:39:39.710
the end that Despite all of these girls like

00:39:39.710 –> 00:39:42.289
victories that it was all just in their heads

00:39:42.289 –> 00:39:44.130
and they were all just gonna get lobotomies and

00:39:44.130 –> 00:39:46.170
stay in a mental Institution and that really

00:39:46.170 –> 00:39:48.909
fucked with me and I hated it. It’s like there’s

00:39:48.909 –> 00:39:52.309
constant themes in these like twists. There’s

00:39:52.309 –> 00:39:55.219
a very common one is You know you’ve been insane

00:39:55.219 –> 00:39:58.699
this whole time Shutter Island that one the unreliable

00:39:58.699 –> 00:40:01.820
narrator reliable that the cabinet of dr. Caligari

00:40:01.820 –> 00:40:06.000
and You know was was a good a Example that as

00:40:06.000 –> 00:40:08.619
well. So yeah, that’s that’s a common one the

00:40:08.619 –> 00:40:12.539
the twist ending that I felt like tanked the

00:40:12.539 –> 00:40:18.619
movie was high -tension It’s kind of this I don’t

00:40:18.619 –> 00:40:20.599
I guess it’s a slasher in a sense where these

00:40:20.599 –> 00:40:23.119
these two girls and one of the family might have

00:40:23.119 –> 00:40:26.400
been involved or running away from what you see

00:40:26.400 –> 00:40:28.840
as a guy in a truck who like does some really

00:40:28.840 –> 00:40:32.320
fucked up shit. And so it’s really suspenseful,

00:40:32.360 –> 00:40:35.340
really well shot until you realize it’s all in

00:40:35.340 –> 00:40:37.579
one of the girl’s heads. And I was just like,

00:40:37.579 –> 00:40:41.579
dude, no, it creates plot holes. Yeah. And I

00:40:41.579 –> 00:40:43.820
mean, you brought a fight club. And so my reaction

00:40:43.820 –> 00:40:46.079
was like, it’s a fucking fight club ending. Yeah.

00:40:46.179 –> 00:40:48.739
And I’m one of these people. That’s my hot take.

00:40:48.860 –> 00:40:51.579
I’m not huge in the fight club. The ending when

00:40:51.579 –> 00:40:54.460
I got I was like, it doesn’t OK, but Edward Norton

00:40:54.460 –> 00:40:56.719
did that shit anyway with Brad Pitt. Without

00:40:56.719 –> 00:40:59.840
him, it doesn’t really make me. It didn’t. It

00:40:59.840 –> 00:41:02.320
didn’t have some profound effect on me for it.

00:41:02.320 –> 00:41:04.860
I could see that. I mean, again, it’s like you

00:41:04.860 –> 00:41:08.639
seen it once. You know, if you saw it in the

00:41:08.639 –> 00:41:10.619
cabin of Dr. Caligari, you saw it in the snake

00:41:10.619 –> 00:41:13.000
pit. You saw it in Fight Club. You seen it in

00:41:13.000 –> 00:41:16.719
Sucker Punch. Yeah, it’s just it. It makes it

00:41:16.719 –> 00:41:21.829
feel like a deus ex machina. In a way to me because

00:41:21.829 –> 00:41:24.090
it’s like if something happens if it’s another

00:41:24.090 –> 00:41:26.070
type of twist ending like the sixth sense Alright,

00:41:26.090 –> 00:41:28.710
he was a ghost the whole time that didn’t change.

00:41:28.710 –> 00:41:31.670
I just didn’t know it um, but when it’s in someone’s

00:41:31.670 –> 00:41:33.610
head then you’re like can you trust the reality

00:41:33.610 –> 00:41:35.550
of what you just saw and I don’t know right you

00:41:35.550 –> 00:41:38.210
almost can’t even trust the reveal because You

00:41:38.210 –> 00:41:41.210
know, nothing’s trustable, right? But you know,

00:41:41.250 –> 00:41:42.670
it’s uh, what’s interesting though about fight

00:41:42.670 –> 00:41:45.050
club Is that what I mean it was a book first,

00:41:45.150 –> 00:41:47.230
right? So it’s sort of yeah, and I wonder if

00:41:47.230 –> 00:41:50.119
it translates would translate better as As a

00:41:50.119 –> 00:41:51.960
book, I have not read it. You know, I never really

00:41:51.960 –> 00:41:54.320
like Chuck Fallonick, so I’m going to go with

00:41:54.320 –> 00:41:56.059
the movie is probably better. But no, I don’t

00:41:56.059 –> 00:41:58.260
know. He’s actually he’s he’s good. I mean, I

00:41:58.260 –> 00:42:00.079
thought the movie was well made. Don’t get me

00:42:00.079 –> 00:42:02.139
wrong. Yeah, I was I was entertained through

00:42:02.139 –> 00:42:04.340
it. I actually really liked the the sequence

00:42:04.340 –> 00:42:07.099
where they were stealing fat and threw a mattress

00:42:07.099 –> 00:42:08.900
over the barbed wire. I’m like, that’s fucking.

00:42:09.000 –> 00:42:12.079
Yeah. And it breaks is our genius. Yeah. Well,

00:42:12.179 –> 00:42:13.880
one that one or two that are worth mentioning

00:42:13.880 –> 00:42:15.340
that I actually haven’t seen either of these,

00:42:15.380 –> 00:42:18.860
but I came across in my research. One is Friday

00:42:18.860 –> 00:42:22.760
the 13th, part five, because a new beginning,

00:42:23.260 –> 00:42:26.119
because I guess apparently you’ve probably seen

00:42:26.119 –> 00:42:30.019
this because you see them all where it was revealed

00:42:30.019 –> 00:42:32.619
that that Jason Voorhees wasn’t the killer all

00:42:32.619 –> 00:42:34.639
along. It was like an imitation. Correct. Pissed

00:42:34.639 –> 00:42:37.440
people off. Yeah, it was an upset. Yeah. Did

00:42:37.440 –> 00:42:38.659
you how did you feel about that when you saw

00:42:38.659 –> 00:42:41.809
it? Well, that. So it’s interesting. I initially

00:42:41.809 –> 00:42:44.170
didn’t watch halloween 3 until it’s a little

00:42:44.170 –> 00:42:46.309
bit later and I love that movie because it’s

00:42:46.309 –> 00:42:47.550
like it doesn’t have fucking michael want You

00:42:47.550 –> 00:42:49.590
know, yeah, but then when you’re a bit more mature

00:42:49.590 –> 00:42:51.389
and you watch something for what it is You’re

00:42:51.389 –> 00:42:53.289
like, is it a good movie? Does it stand on its

00:42:53.289 –> 00:42:56.369
own? So I didn’t have that vitriol towards part

00:42:56.369 –> 00:42:59.389
five. Yes, I knew that so so that actually helped

00:42:59.389 –> 00:43:01.769
it I was like, oh a copycat killer. Yeah. Okay,

00:43:01.949 –> 00:43:04.329
interesting Yeah, and you know, like I think

00:43:04.329 –> 00:43:05.869
we mentioned this in a previous episode, but

00:43:05.869 –> 00:43:07.630
that was meant to be a bit of an anthology so

00:43:07.630 –> 00:43:10.219
you could almost say it was sort of like going

00:43:10.219 –> 00:43:13.579
back to its anthology roots, where it’s like,

00:43:13.679 –> 00:43:16.679
you know, a story in the Friday the 13th universe.

00:43:17.380 –> 00:43:21.739
Right. Another twist that really knocked me on

00:43:21.739 –> 00:43:24.480
my ass was Orphan. Have you guys seen that one?

00:43:25.739 –> 00:43:30.239
Is that the Spanish one? No, that’s the Orphanage.

00:43:30.340 –> 00:43:31.940
Orphanage, okay. That has a twist too. Yeah,

00:43:31.940 –> 00:43:33.420
yeah, yeah, yeah. No, this one’s kind of new

00:43:33.420 –> 00:43:35.039
though, right? Like last 10 years or something?

00:43:35.099 –> 00:43:39.869
I think it came out in 2009. Right. Yeah, it’s

00:43:39.869 –> 00:43:41.469
kind of thinking and they made a sequel and the

00:43:41.469 –> 00:43:43.989
sequel has a wild twist too But orphan is where

00:43:43.989 –> 00:43:50.429
this family adopts a little girl and she is a

00:43:50.429 –> 00:43:54.750
handful she’s a Way too smart, but it’s it’s

00:43:54.750 –> 00:43:58.090
it’s a pretty fucking crazy Reveal or was I don’t

00:43:58.090 –> 00:44:00.110
know I guess I won’t spoil it right actually

00:44:00.110 –> 00:44:02.250
I remember that I remember knowing about that

00:44:02.250 –> 00:44:03.650
movie. I don’t I haven’t seen it though It’s

00:44:03.650 –> 00:44:07.530
good. It’s it was pretty impressive Yeah, and

00:44:07.530 –> 00:44:10.170
then one more bad one if you were curious that

00:44:10.170 –> 00:44:14.389
again haven’t seen but the 2001 version of Planet

00:44:14.389 –> 00:44:17.969
of the Apes where the reveal Slash twist was

00:44:17.969 –> 00:44:19.530
like, you know how in the original Planet of

00:44:19.530 –> 00:44:21.690
the Apes the 60s one there’s it’s this there’s

00:44:21.690 –> 00:44:28.369
the statute Well, then in this one the reveal

00:44:28.369 –> 00:44:30.170
was it wasn’t the Statue of Liberty was a giant

00:44:30.170 –> 00:44:32.610
sculpture of an ape Which I think the problem

00:44:32.610 –> 00:44:33.849
was not a lot of people like what does that even

00:44:33.849 –> 00:44:37.110
mean? You know, like so it is on this planet

00:44:37.110 –> 00:44:40.550
of the apes. It was a legit planet of the yeah

00:44:40.550 –> 00:44:42.650
that they had landed onto. But I think it was

00:44:42.650 –> 00:44:44.510
a planet of the apes that we originally like,

00:44:44.510 –> 00:44:46.570
you know, seen or whatever. Whenever they went

00:44:46.570 –> 00:44:48.710
back in orbit. Exactly. It’s like the twist was

00:44:48.710 –> 00:44:51.269
that, oh, you thought we were remaking the planet

00:44:51.269 –> 00:44:54.309
of the eights. But actually, yeah, we continued.

00:44:54.389 –> 00:44:56.269
It’s like meta. It’s not even really about the

00:44:56.269 –> 00:44:58.750
story. It’s about like you audience members,

00:44:58.829 –> 00:45:00.769
what you brought into the theater. Yeah. It was

00:45:00.769 –> 00:45:03.550
all over the place. What’s kind of interesting

00:45:03.550 –> 00:45:06.289
is, I’m going to go back to the Twilight Zone

00:45:06.289 –> 00:45:10.250
for a second, the monsters are due on Maple Street.

00:45:10.250 –> 00:45:13.210
Because then they remade it as the monsters are

00:45:13.210 –> 00:45:18.010
on Maple Street. And I oddly prefer the remake

00:45:18.010 –> 00:45:22.670
because they tweak it. So in the original, it’s

00:45:22.670 –> 00:45:26.590
like there’s a blackout and… Let me see I gotta

00:45:26.590 –> 00:45:28.369
look at my notes a little bit and all the neighbors

00:45:28.369 –> 00:45:30.730
come out and they turn on themselves because

00:45:30.730 –> 00:45:33.550
They do in the in a panic and it’s it’s revealed

00:45:33.550 –> 00:45:35.590
that aliens are kind of messing with them by

00:45:35.590 –> 00:45:37.849
manipulating their power and they hint at conquering

00:45:37.849 –> 00:45:41.869
humans by doing this block by block in the 2003

00:45:41.869 –> 00:45:46.170
remake everyone turns on The name one neighbor’s

00:45:46.170 –> 00:45:48.329
house who has power and they never come outside

00:45:48.329 –> 00:45:49.949
because they have power So why would they where

00:45:49.949 –> 00:45:52.030
everyone’s like it’s them they’re doing this

00:45:52.199 –> 00:45:54.619
And it turns out it was a government test about

00:45:54.619 –> 00:45:57.260
terrorism in every neighborhood. They tested

00:45:57.260 –> 00:46:00.119
this on it. It fails. And so I like it better

00:46:00.119 –> 00:46:02.559
because it really suggests the humans are the

00:46:02.559 –> 00:46:04.420
monsters. I guess they both kind of do. Yeah.

00:46:04.519 –> 00:46:07.539
But the the second one felt relevant at the time.

00:46:07.699 –> 00:46:09.719
And I was like, yeah, that’s that’s an interesting

00:46:09.719 –> 00:46:11.940
twist on a twist. Yeah, it’s sort of you can

00:46:11.940 –> 00:46:15.639
almost see echoes of that idea in Pluribus to

00:46:15.639 –> 00:46:17.440
actually a little bit, you know, the month, you

00:46:17.440 –> 00:46:21.309
know, the Apple one. Yeah, okay. I haven’t seen

00:46:21.309 –> 00:46:22.989
that but is in my queue. I just oh I just kicked

00:46:22.989 –> 00:46:25.050
back on apple just recently to finish drinking

00:46:25.050 –> 00:46:27.090
But yeah, I do want to see good vince gilligan.

00:46:27.090 –> 00:46:30.969
Yeah, cool um, so I I got a question for you

00:46:30.969 –> 00:46:35.030
peter sure how for Us filmmakers out there who

00:46:35.030 –> 00:46:36.550
are interested in doing a good twist Do you have

00:46:36.550 –> 00:46:39.670
any like thoughts about what makes a twist successful

00:46:39.670 –> 00:46:44.949
versus one that? doesn’t I think so and i’m gonna

00:46:44.949 –> 00:46:48.510
tread lightly here because I I came up with a

00:46:48.559 –> 00:46:52.400
a script with a twist that I think is brilliant

00:46:52.400 –> 00:46:54.699
because I haven’t seen that done before and how

00:46:54.699 –> 00:46:58.460
it recontextualizes the film. And I haven’t written

00:46:58.460 –> 00:47:01.380
it. So it’s just in my mind because it’s a really

00:47:01.380 –> 00:47:05.199
heavy subject matter. But just I think irony

00:47:05.199 –> 00:47:09.079
is a huge key of something. And you have to look

00:47:09.079 –> 00:47:14.340
at, you know, character motivations. It really

00:47:14.340 –> 00:47:17.000
depends because there are so many different takes

00:47:17.000 –> 00:47:20.940
on twists. Like, if you’ve seen Sleepaway Camp,

00:47:21.079 –> 00:47:22.639
have either of you guys seen that? Yeah, yeah.

00:47:22.840 –> 00:47:26.079
The twist on that is big, what the fuck? Just,

00:47:26.219 –> 00:47:28.480
it feels like for what the fuck. Yeah, but I

00:47:28.480 –> 00:47:30.260
mean, like, I looked back on it and I was like,

00:47:30.420 –> 00:47:33.340
okay, so there’s actually a reason for it, but

00:47:33.340 –> 00:47:38.340
it’s just a fucking shocking visual. I don’t

00:47:38.340 –> 00:47:40.360
know if I – I’d say it, yeah. Should I not spoil

00:47:40.360 –> 00:47:41.860
that one for you? No, you can, I don’t mind.

00:47:42.599 –> 00:47:45.619
So yeah, Sleepaway Camp, it’s, you know, people

00:47:45.619 –> 00:47:47.699
are getting killed at camp, and there’s this

00:47:47.699 –> 00:47:52.659
girl, Angela, and at the very end, and I don’t

00:47:52.659 –> 00:47:55.019
even remember the context, she’s standing there,

00:47:55.219 –> 00:47:58.099
and she has a dick, she’s a dude, and she’s like

00:47:58.099 –> 00:47:59.780
growling, and there’s this look in her eye, and

00:47:59.780 –> 00:48:02.960
you’re just like, what the fuck? And the twist

00:48:02.960 –> 00:48:06.360
is that, like, her parents or her grandmother

00:48:06.360 –> 00:48:08.500
or her aunt or whatever, she had a twin brother,

00:48:08.519 –> 00:48:11.190
I think it was a twin. It made her pretend to

00:48:11.190 –> 00:48:14.050
be a girl. Yeah, either the whole time. And so

00:48:14.050 –> 00:48:16.630
that’s that’s what it is. But when you see it,

00:48:16.730 –> 00:48:19.449
just it’s a pretty jarring shot because you’re

00:48:19.449 –> 00:48:21.150
like, where did that? Right. So there’s like

00:48:21.150 –> 00:48:24.110
kind of shock twist endings, too. Yeah. And that’s

00:48:24.110 –> 00:48:26.710
that’s I think part of what goes into twist is

00:48:26.710 –> 00:48:29.010
they should shock you. And then when you process

00:48:29.010 –> 00:48:31.170
it, it should really like make you look at the

00:48:31.170 –> 00:48:34.550
whole thing all over again. Right. Right. You

00:48:34.550 –> 00:48:37.150
know, I think also an element of it is that it.

00:48:37.389 –> 00:48:41.309
It has to be additive. Like if it undermines

00:48:41.309 –> 00:48:43.730
everything you’ve seen before, I think that’s

00:48:43.730 –> 00:48:46.110
when you get into the territory of it like, you

00:48:46.110 –> 00:48:50.809
know, feeling bad. Cause you’re like, oh, you

00:48:50.809 –> 00:48:52.969
know, it just, it’s like, oh, this story’s really

00:48:52.969 –> 00:48:54.789
cool. And then the ending makes it less cool.

00:48:54.889 –> 00:48:56.190
I think that was kind of part of the problem

00:48:56.190 –> 00:48:58.690
with the village, right? It’s like they created

00:48:58.690 –> 00:49:00.610
a really cool world and then they like kind of

00:49:00.610 –> 00:49:01.750
pulled the rug out from in you in a way that

00:49:01.750 –> 00:49:03.409
just makes it feel like, oh, well the world is

00:49:03.409 –> 00:49:06.300
less cool. Yeah, this was well, it’s it’s sometimes

00:49:06.300 –> 00:49:08.860
it’s like if you have one movie, you know You

00:49:08.860 –> 00:49:10.719
you have a vampire movie and then all of a sudden

00:49:10.719 –> 00:49:12.280
fuck it. Let’s throw ninjas in there. You’re

00:49:12.280 –> 00:49:16.679
like, wait what? I mean, maybe that can be cool,

00:49:16.679 –> 00:49:18.639
but you know what I’m saying? Yeah. Yeah, right

00:49:18.639 –> 00:49:25.119
is a shift I was gonna say The mist I don’t know

00:49:25.119 –> 00:49:28.179
if I would consider that a twist. It’s that’s

00:49:28.179 –> 00:49:32.869
the one where they Are sorry go ahead go on It’s

00:49:32.869 –> 00:49:37.889
based on a Stephen King novella. And the Stephen

00:49:37.889 –> 00:49:43.289
King’s novella is kind of inconclusive, but the

00:49:43.289 –> 00:49:46.349
twist, what Frank Darer, the reveal, whatever

00:49:46.349 –> 00:49:49.489
you want to call it, is brutal. But it makes

00:49:49.489 –> 00:49:51.969
it that much better. Stephen King even was like,

00:49:52.190 –> 00:49:54.690
yo, I wish I had thought of that. Have you seen

00:49:54.690 –> 00:49:58.170
that, Chris? I haven’t, but I read about it in

00:49:58.170 –> 00:50:00.670
prep for this. That’s the one where they like…

00:50:00.199 –> 00:50:03.260
He kind of mercy kills those kids. And then right

00:50:03.260 –> 00:50:04.960
afterwards, they like government shows up to

00:50:04.960 –> 00:50:08.099
help. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s that’s so

00:50:08.099 –> 00:50:12.420
good. But the funny thing is, I remember like

00:50:12.420 –> 00:50:14.460
processing this and you’re looking online and

00:50:14.460 –> 00:50:17.119
all this and someone’s like, it’s you think it’s

00:50:17.119 –> 00:50:19.239
a dark ending, but it’s also kind of like optimistic

00:50:19.239 –> 00:50:21.099
because the army is fighting back and now these

00:50:21.099 –> 00:50:23.199
things are dying. But you know, it’s great because

00:50:23.199 –> 00:50:25.460
it’s also so European, so French, like French

00:50:25.460 –> 00:50:28.099
films usually don’t have happy endings, you know.

00:50:28.759 –> 00:50:30.500
Not saying that that’s a French film, but but

00:50:30.500 –> 00:50:32.940
my point is I like I I actually love films like

00:50:32.940 –> 00:50:37.460
that because I’m just it’s like In real in the

00:50:37.460 –> 00:50:39.639
real world things don’t usually work out for

00:50:39.639 –> 00:50:42.880
them. Yeah. Yeah, it’s honest and yeah, totally

00:50:42.880 –> 00:50:45.039
That’s exactly why I liked it is because it was

00:50:45.039 –> 00:50:47.039
it made you think cuz you know if you’re in that

00:50:47.039 –> 00:50:48.860
situation Well, yeah, this is what you’re gonna

00:50:48.860 –> 00:50:51.260
fucking do, you know when you see all these monsters

00:50:51.260 –> 00:50:53.639
It’s like I got three bullets. There’s four of

00:50:53.639 –> 00:50:56.349
us. You know, I’m a take care of who I can, if

00:50:56.349 –> 00:51:01.210
I can go. But would you guys call it a twist?

00:51:01.630 –> 00:51:05.429
I feel like it’s a shot of irony. Yeah. As opposed

00:51:05.429 –> 00:51:06.969
to being a twist. Yeah, it’s not a true twist

00:51:06.969 –> 00:51:08.489
because they weren’t hiding anything from you.

00:51:08.730 –> 00:51:10.710
Right, right. I mean, he was doing the best he

00:51:10.710 –> 00:51:12.590
could with what he had. It’s just ironic. Yeah.

00:51:12.730 –> 00:51:15.130
I think maybe the twist is just and this is kind

00:51:15.130 –> 00:51:17.769
of a… The overused twist is, you know, it was

00:51:17.769 –> 00:51:19.150
the government, you know, because nobody knew

00:51:19.150 –> 00:51:20.889
what it was. And people thought it was like a

00:51:20.889 –> 00:51:23.289
religious thing. You know, we have who’s in there.

00:51:23.289 –> 00:51:26.190
Yeah. Who’s right. You know, convinced everybody

00:51:26.190 –> 00:51:28.389
this is in a day’s time. And so everyone’s kind

00:51:28.389 –> 00:51:30.389
of following her, you know. And then eventually

00:51:30.389 –> 00:51:32.670
at the end, you don’t know it’s the government.

00:51:32.750 –> 00:51:34.309
You kind of suspect because they’re the government

00:51:34.309 –> 00:51:36.710
people who flew. You know, there’s a scene and

00:51:36.710 –> 00:51:38.210
there’s a couple of soldiers in the grocery store.

00:51:38.369 –> 00:51:39.949
But they’re very mum on the word. And they wind

00:51:39.949 –> 00:51:41.789
up dying, too. And you’re like, oh, shit. But

00:51:41.789 –> 00:51:43.429
I think maybe the twist is at the end when you

00:51:43.429 –> 00:51:45.380
do see the government. They show up, but you

00:51:45.380 –> 00:51:47.400
know, you’re like, oh, well, the government has

00:51:47.400 –> 00:51:49.000
been fighting these things out in the midst.

00:51:49.239 –> 00:51:50.820
Maybe they kind of knew about it. That’s a good

00:51:50.820 –> 00:51:53.360
point. I think everyone focuses on what Thomas

00:51:53.360 –> 00:51:56.119
Jane does. Yeah. As opposed to that. That’s really

00:51:56.119 –> 00:51:58.079
good. That is really good insight. You know,

00:51:58.119 –> 00:51:59.760
another movie that comes to mind talking about

00:51:59.760 –> 00:52:03.780
this is Cloverfield Lane, which had a I thought

00:52:03.780 –> 00:52:08.380
a really effective and interesting. I mean, I

00:52:08.380 –> 00:52:10.780
would call it a twist, but it is in some ways

00:52:10.780 –> 00:52:14.659
a reveal. It’s. In this this is not an issue

00:52:14.659 –> 00:52:17.199
with it, but going into knowing what the premise

00:52:17.199 –> 00:52:20.139
is You’re either like the aliens are real or

00:52:20.139 –> 00:52:23.320
they’re not yeah, so so you’re it wasn’t that

00:52:23.320 –> 00:52:25.019
surprising because it’s 50 -50 what it could

00:52:25.019 –> 00:52:27.539
be no You’re right, but but you just you do kind

00:52:27.539 –> 00:52:29.500
of assume John Goodman’s character. It’s crazy

00:52:29.500 –> 00:52:31.480
Yeah, it’s using it as a device to keep them

00:52:31.480 –> 00:52:34.239
entrapped and I mean because they’re yeah because

00:52:34.239 –> 00:52:37.260
the victims thought that as well yeah and And

00:52:37.260 –> 00:52:39.619
then they finally get out and you’re like oh

00:52:39.619 –> 00:52:42.079
fuck he was even though he was a bad guy He was

00:52:42.079 –> 00:52:44.619
also was protecting you. Yeah. So that’s kind

00:52:44.619 –> 00:52:46.519
of interesting. The only time I’ve ever been

00:52:46.519 –> 00:52:48.360
scared of John Goodman. Oh, my God. Sorry to

00:52:48.360 –> 00:52:50.699
interrupt, but yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, have you

00:52:50.699 –> 00:52:54.099
seen Barton Fink? Yeah, he’s not like scary,

00:52:54.199 –> 00:52:56.539
but like he has a pretty awesome character in

00:52:56.539 –> 00:52:58.820
that. Yeah, that one. He definitely got under

00:52:58.820 –> 00:53:01.440
my skin. I was like, oh, my God. Yeah, he was

00:53:01.440 –> 00:53:07.940
great. Yes. Another movie where I don’t know

00:53:07.940 –> 00:53:12.190
if this is a twist or just like he Brutal like

00:53:12.190 –> 00:53:14.710
kind of like the the mist is neither. You guys

00:53:14.710 –> 00:53:19.130
have seen Eden Lake. Mm -hmm So should I talk

00:53:19.130 –> 00:53:21.730
about it? Sure. I don’t mind. So it’s got Michael

00:53:21.730 –> 00:53:24.269
Fassbender I can’t remember the actress’s name.

00:53:24.309 –> 00:53:28.150
I think it’s 2007 2009 so it’s somewhere around

00:53:28.150 –> 00:53:33.050
there and he’s taking takes his girlfriend To

00:53:33.050 –> 00:53:36.989
this lake that’s kind of I think it’s been fenced

00:53:36.989 –> 00:53:38.429
off because they’re gonna be doing construction

00:53:38.429 –> 00:53:40.610
around it and he proposes to her they’re gonna

00:53:40.610 –> 00:53:44.150
have this peaceful weekend at the lake and there’s

00:53:44.150 –> 00:53:47.409
some kids there and the kids are fucking like

00:53:47.409 –> 00:53:51.289
evil and make their lives hell and it goes really

00:53:51.289 –> 00:53:55.309
bad and the woman fights back whatever she she

00:53:55.309 –> 00:53:58.130
kind of escapes and at the very end she she escapes

00:53:58.130 –> 00:54:00.170
these kids after i think like probably killing

00:54:00.170 –> 00:54:02.469
some of them you know it’s it’s a survival situation

00:54:02.469 –> 00:54:05.730
and she finds a house with these His family’s

00:54:05.730 –> 00:54:07.349
like oh my god come in they’re having a party

00:54:07.349 –> 00:54:09.050
they’re like you poor thing clean yourself up

00:54:09.050 –> 00:54:12.349
in the bathroom And then the surviving kid comes

00:54:12.349 –> 00:54:15.429
home, and that’s his parents That’s what kind

00:54:15.429 –> 00:54:17.130
of more of it is that twisters that are revealed

00:54:17.130 –> 00:54:20.829
though I mean like you don’t but it it twists

00:54:20.829 –> 00:54:23.150
fate I guess like you think she’s safe, and then

00:54:23.150 –> 00:54:24.710
it’s not it’s not what you think yeah, right

00:54:24.710 –> 00:54:27.389
It goes in like a great direction whatever it

00:54:27.389 –> 00:54:30.210
is. It’s right really so that’s where I think

00:54:30.210 –> 00:54:33.360
twists get into where you Is that a twist or

00:54:33.360 –> 00:54:35.400
is that not kind of thing? You know, one I really

00:54:35.400 –> 00:54:37.699
liked is very one of my favorite movies. I’ve

00:54:37.699 –> 00:54:39.340
already said that a few times on this podcast,

00:54:39.480 –> 00:54:43.019
but a session nine where, you know, they find

00:54:43.019 –> 00:54:45.400
these tapes and throughout the movie, you think

00:54:45.400 –> 00:54:47.780
these tapes are like about these killings that

00:54:47.780 –> 00:54:49.320
happened at this asylum a long time ago, but

00:54:49.320 –> 00:54:52.800
actually they are end up being the tapes of the

00:54:52.800 –> 00:54:55.500
murders of the one of the crew members killing

00:54:55.500 –> 00:54:58.400
people that week. Ah, it’s been a while since

00:54:58.400 –> 00:55:00.260
I’ve seen that. Yeah. Pretty good, though. It’s

00:55:00.260 –> 00:55:03.139
yeah, it’s pretty dope. Yeah, I mean there’s

00:55:03.139 –> 00:55:05.940
so many and horror is a really good genre form

00:55:05.940 –> 00:55:08.599
You know because they I mean it can happen in

00:55:08.599 –> 00:55:11.820
any genre really or any a number of genres I’d

00:55:11.820 –> 00:55:14.019
say well, it’s apparently because I would I looked

00:55:14.019 –> 00:55:16.360
that up I was like your horror movies the most

00:55:16.360 –> 00:55:18.480
is that where you have the most twists I think

00:55:18.480 –> 00:55:20.619
it’s thrillers or science fiction science fiction

00:55:20.619 –> 00:55:23.179
for sure yeah I think it goes down to that because

00:55:23.179 –> 00:55:25.300
I was talking to you all both about ribbon planet

00:55:25.300 –> 00:55:28.219
Which is loosely based on like the tempest you

00:55:28.219 –> 00:55:30.929
know and you’ve got like this crew who? is hearing

00:55:30.929 –> 00:55:35.329
a beacon, like a sign to come rescue him or whatever.

00:55:35.809 –> 00:55:37.750
And so it’s Leslie Nielsen in one of his first

00:55:37.750 –> 00:55:39.710
roles and stuff. And he’s incredibly serious

00:55:39.710 –> 00:55:42.010
and it’s great. And so they get there and all

00:55:42.010 –> 00:55:44.969
this, the crew starts dying and they’re trying

00:55:44.969 –> 00:55:47.110
to figure out what’s happening and what the whole

00:55:47.110 –> 00:55:49.809
deal is behind it. And they’re on this planet

00:55:49.809 –> 00:55:52.469
of the Krell and they’ve got all this crazy technology

00:55:52.469 –> 00:55:57.610
and the whole… spoiler of this is essentially

00:55:57.610 –> 00:56:01.909
it’s the id like this guy has Harnessed the the

00:56:01.909 –> 00:56:05.119
previous inhabitants like technology so much

00:56:05.119 –> 00:56:06.480
and he’s been fucking around with it so much

00:56:06.480 –> 00:56:09.219
it’s gotten in his head. And so his id is now

00:56:09.219 –> 00:56:11.460
the monster. And so like his id is the one that’s

00:56:11.460 –> 00:56:12.980
actually attacking these people at night. And

00:56:12.980 –> 00:56:15.360
it’s turned into this big like electricity monster.

00:56:15.699 –> 00:56:17.500
Nobody knows that. You don’t get that until the

00:56:17.500 –> 00:56:19.219
very end. And I think that’s kind of cool because

00:56:19.219 –> 00:56:22.119
it’s a different play on everything. Yeah, like,

00:56:22.260 –> 00:56:23.739
you know, he’s so obsessed with his daughter

00:56:23.739 –> 00:56:26.679
not, you know, leaving the planet and stuff that

00:56:26.679 –> 00:56:28.960
he’s like manifested like all his like possessiveness

00:56:28.960 –> 00:56:31.039
and all his like, you know, hatred for anyone

00:56:31.039 –> 00:56:32.809
who’s trying to take her away because she kind

00:56:32.809 –> 00:56:34.510
of falls in love with Leslie Nelson’s character,

00:56:34.650 –> 00:56:36.469
you know, and so that becomes even more like

00:56:36.469 –> 00:56:38.809
ramped up. And so at the very end, the big scene

00:56:38.809 –> 00:56:42.449
is like, you know, he’s got so much anger in

00:56:42.449 –> 00:56:44.949
his, you know, in his ego that the monsters just

00:56:44.949 –> 00:56:46.849
unleashed and nobody can contain it and everything

00:56:46.849 –> 00:56:48.989
like that and just like wipes everybody out.

00:56:49.469 –> 00:56:50.929
But it’s kind of cool because it’s a different

00:56:50.929 –> 00:56:53.409
it’s it’s his mind that winds up. Yeah, it’s

00:56:53.409 –> 00:56:56.929
sort of the opposite of like being crazy, you

00:56:56.929 –> 00:56:58.809
know, like the crazy truth. It’s like the. Yeah.

00:56:59.500 –> 00:57:01.739
the projection of your crazy versus the like

00:57:01.739 –> 00:57:04.059
it’s all internal. It’s all external. Yeah. Yeah.

00:57:04.139 –> 00:57:07.559
No, it was a it had a lot of production accomplishments

00:57:07.559 –> 00:57:09.860
with that and stuff like that. So I always kind

00:57:09.860 –> 00:57:12.800
of go back to that as a twist ending. Yeah, I

00:57:12.800 –> 00:57:15.300
get to check that out. Christopher, you were

00:57:15.300 –> 00:57:17.900
saying that I think around the time the Sixth

00:57:17.900 –> 00:57:20.059
Sense came out, there was a bunch of movies that

00:57:20.059 –> 00:57:22.780
did the twist. And we talked about them. Yeah,

00:57:22.780 –> 00:57:25.340
the the Sixth Sense and Fight Club were the same

00:57:25.340 –> 00:57:27.019
year and the others was only like two years later.

00:57:27.789 –> 00:57:30.730
I feel like that was a stir of echoes around

00:57:30.730 –> 00:57:33.769
that too. But the reason I’m circling back to

00:57:33.769 –> 00:57:38.050
that is when this movie came out there was a

00:57:38.050 –> 00:57:41.650
lot of Like it was notorious. I guess I should

00:57:41.650 –> 00:57:44.150
say buzz isn’t the right word is a Serbian film

00:57:44.150 –> 00:57:47.269
and that’s the type of movie most people regret

00:57:47.269 –> 00:57:50.989
watching but what’s very interesting about it

00:57:50.989 –> 00:57:56.440
is I saw Kill List shortly after that And they’re

00:57:56.440 –> 00:57:59.960
very similar. In a Serbian film, it’s an ex -porn

00:57:59.960 –> 00:58:02.099
star who gets lured back into his old profession

00:58:02.099 –> 00:58:04.340
and it goes bad. Kill List, it’s the same thing,

00:58:04.340 –> 00:58:07.659
but it’s an assassin. And if you don’t want to

00:58:07.659 –> 00:58:09.320
see a Serbian film, and I’m not recommending

00:58:09.320 –> 00:58:12.059
you do, you could watch Kill List and you would

00:58:12.059 –> 00:58:15.059
know basically what happens at the end of a Serbian

00:58:15.059 –> 00:58:17.860
film. All right. So that’s a safer bet. Right

00:58:17.860 –> 00:58:22.400
on, yes. Yeah. And it’s a twist, of course. Sorry,

00:58:22.739 –> 00:58:28.119
I will say that. That’s cool. Yes, and there’s

00:58:28.119 –> 00:58:33.059
a lot I feel like there’s a lot of kind of modern

00:58:33.059 –> 00:58:38.780
horror films kind of have twists to Well, you

00:58:38.780 –> 00:58:40.420
know, there’s a number of the 824 and they’re

00:58:40.420 –> 00:58:41.820
kind of like light twists. I don’t even know

00:58:41.820 –> 00:58:47.019
I but you know Yeah, I think it’s really that

00:58:47.019 –> 00:58:50.559
It seems like these days to get a lot of attention

00:58:50.559 –> 00:58:52.980
people kind of either have a high concept or

00:58:52.980 –> 00:58:56.300
there’s a good twist, you know? And so, but a

00:58:56.300 –> 00:58:59.019
lot of 824 films have a little bit of a twist,

00:58:59.360 –> 00:59:02.159
like Hereditary, Midsommar kind of has one. What’s

00:59:02.159 –> 00:59:08.260
the twist of Midsommar? Well, they become. It’s

00:59:08.260 –> 00:59:10.420
been a few years since I have the worst memory,

00:59:10.780 –> 00:59:13.579
but the person, one of the victims, quote unquote,

00:59:13.780 –> 00:59:17.739
becomes the light king. Right festival or whatever

00:59:17.739 –> 00:59:19.440
either way, you know our Queen the Mayflower

00:59:19.440 –> 00:59:21.000
Queen. There you go. Yes She’s the one that gets

00:59:21.000 –> 00:59:25.780
to choose whether or not if her boyfriend Is

00:59:25.780 –> 00:59:28.760
part of the sacrifice or not? Yeah, she has seen

00:59:28.760 –> 00:59:33.139
him cheat on her And she isn’t so much pain She

00:59:33.139 –> 00:59:37.019
says hey go ahead and burn him There you go Daffodil

00:59:37.019 –> 00:59:42.300
with the wind. The Wicker Man was a huge influence

00:59:42.300 –> 00:59:44.960
on that. I love that movie. That has a twist

00:59:44.960 –> 00:59:48.179
too, but it’s not even if you know it, it doesn’t

00:59:48.179 –> 00:59:50.099
really impact how you view it because you kind

00:59:50.099 –> 00:59:53.500
of suspect that. It’s because it’s such a common

00:59:53.500 –> 00:59:56.260
trajectory for those types of movies. Get Out

00:59:56.260 –> 01:00:00.019
had a bit of a twist too. So on Get Out, I meant

01:00:00.019 –> 01:00:02.059
to mention this too. We didn’t say that at the

01:00:02.059 –> 01:00:07.789
beginning and Hereditary. One movie I saw, these

01:00:07.789 –> 01:00:09.570
are two different movies, but we’ll start with

01:00:09.570 –> 01:00:13.829
Get Out. Yes, there’s a twist to that. Skeleton

01:00:13.829 –> 01:00:20.070
Key, which came out in 2005, has a great twist

01:00:20.070 –> 01:00:23.510
ending. Like that one knocked me on my ass. But

01:00:23.510 –> 01:00:26.929
someone made a comparison between Skeleton Key

01:00:26.929 –> 01:00:30.989
and Get Out on YouTube, and it’s like, holy shit.

01:00:31.610 –> 01:00:34.849
It’s not the same movie. But it has a lot of

01:00:34.849 –> 01:00:36.610
the same thing. And it’s really compelling if

01:00:36.610 –> 01:00:38.849
you’ve seen both of those movies. And so I thought

01:00:38.849 –> 01:00:41.369
that was really interesting. But the but going

01:00:41.369 –> 01:00:45.309
back to Skeleton Keys, that twist to that is

01:00:45.309 –> 01:00:48.909
top notch. But then there’s a movie that I saw.

01:00:49.690 –> 01:00:50.989
I should I say what movie? Because then I don’t

01:00:50.989 –> 01:00:53.469
want to spoil another movie. Well, it’s up to

01:00:53.469 –> 01:00:56.250
you, man. Go for it. That has the same ending

01:00:56.250 –> 01:01:00.650
from like the late 70s and hereditary also kind

01:01:00.650 –> 01:01:03.769
of has borrowed from that. Right. Well, you know,

01:01:04.869 –> 01:01:07.349
as they say, history doesn’t repeat itself, but

01:01:07.349 –> 01:01:09.269
it rhymes. Yeah, I kind of feel like that’s true

01:01:09.269 –> 01:01:12.889
with twist endings. Like, it’s very hard to have

01:01:12.889 –> 01:01:15.309
a truly unique twist ending. Agreed, agreed.

01:01:15.530 –> 01:01:17.449
And I don’t even know if either director had

01:01:17.449 –> 01:01:19.889
seen this or either writer had seen this movie.

01:01:19.969 –> 01:01:21.130
But then when you see it and you’re like, it

01:01:21.130 –> 01:01:24.489
predates it, your mind goes to beat them to the

01:01:24.489 –> 01:01:27.099
punch. Right. Does anyone else have any? I think

01:01:27.099 –> 01:01:28.420
maybe the last thing and I would say and it’s

01:01:28.420 –> 01:01:30.920
not necessarily whores like clue, you know clues

01:01:30.920 –> 01:01:32.880
got it had three different endings because they

01:01:32.880 –> 01:01:34.519
didn’t know how they wanted to make the big reveal

01:01:34.519 –> 01:01:36.920
and stuff and uh, you know, plus we love, you

01:01:36.920 –> 01:01:40.440
know fear Yeah, well mysteries kind of by their

01:01:40.440 –> 01:01:43.739
nature. Yeah are ripe for twists, right? I think

01:01:43.739 –> 01:01:47.079
so. Yeah, uh, but it’s just uh, it’s it’s a it’s

01:01:47.079 –> 01:01:50.239
a comical reveal. And I think my favorite at

01:01:50.239 –> 01:01:53.239
the end is when Wadsworth, which is Tim Curry’s

01:01:53.239 –> 01:01:55.119
character, is actually like the CIA. And he’s

01:01:55.119 –> 01:01:56.380
like, that’s what I see here. You know, and he

01:01:56.380 –> 01:01:58.480
just like wrapped it like in all the like the

01:01:58.480 –> 01:02:00.179
swarm swarm of the police officers come in. You’re

01:02:00.179 –> 01:02:01.780
like, what the fuck? How did that happen? But

01:02:01.780 –> 01:02:04.480
that was just one of their I got to rewatch the

01:02:04.480 –> 01:02:06.519
reveals. But, you know, the whole time it’s basically,

01:02:06.519 –> 01:02:08.360
you know, it’s based off the actual board game

01:02:08.360 –> 01:02:09.820
where you’re trying to figure out like who’s

01:02:09.820 –> 01:02:11.619
killing what. And it is itself like a mystery.

01:02:11.679 –> 01:02:13.340
And like every card you pull, it’s like, what?

01:02:13.380 –> 01:02:15.619
That’s kind of weird. It’s a twist to reveal

01:02:15.619 –> 01:02:18.269
something else. That’s probably the the only

01:02:18.269 –> 01:02:20.889
movie based on a board game that was good. Yeah.

01:02:22.869 –> 01:02:24.389
Cause I know they made that into a trend and

01:02:24.389 –> 01:02:27.289
I was just like, I don’t know. Yeah. I just stuff.

01:02:27.369 –> 01:02:28.469
I don’t think you could, I don’t think you could

01:02:28.469 –> 01:02:30.570
do anything else. I think, I think clue just

01:02:30.570 –> 01:02:32.909
had it built into the game because it is just

01:02:32.909 –> 01:02:35.389
kind of a suspenseful game in general of murder,

01:02:35.389 –> 01:02:37.469
you know, and you don’t have a lot of those games

01:02:37.469 –> 01:02:40.940
anymore. So to see it in a movie form, I think,

01:02:40.980 –> 01:02:42.440
is interesting. And I don’t wanna give, because

01:02:42.440 –> 01:02:44.340
there is three endings, so I won’t give the other

01:02:44.340 –> 01:02:46.239
two away that are, I feel like they’re twists,

01:02:46.360 –> 01:02:49.139
but I think also in the reveal, but I think the

01:02:49.139 –> 01:02:53.199
fun twist is he was just a CIA agent the whole

01:02:53.199 –> 01:02:56.320
time. When you were saying we love fear, she’s

01:02:56.320 –> 01:02:59.039
referring to Mr. Body leaving. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

01:02:59.099 –> 01:03:02.340
because he’s one of the main, he’s the body,

01:03:02.400 –> 01:03:03.960
he’s the guy that dies in it, and everyone’s

01:03:03.960 –> 01:03:07.039
trying to figure out what the murder is. Right.

01:03:07.659 –> 01:03:11.800
Cool. Well, check out Clue as well. I think that

01:03:11.800 –> 01:03:14.760
brings to the end of this really fun, interesting

01:03:14.760 –> 01:03:17.559
April Fool’s episode where we’re talking about

01:03:17.559 –> 01:03:21.480
twists. Yeah. You know for the full disclosure

01:03:21.480 –> 01:03:24.199
we thought about trying to actually drop fake

01:03:24.199 –> 01:03:27.079
twists on you for like an April Fool’s joke but

01:03:27.079 –> 01:03:30.519
Peter is really for it, and I I wasn’t sure like

01:03:30.519 –> 01:03:33.320
how would go so well that sounds fun You can

01:03:33.320 –> 01:03:35.659
blame it on me for not doing it. I know I do

01:03:35.659 –> 01:03:38.840
want to make a couple recommendations there are

01:03:38.840 –> 01:03:42.360
movies that are twisty that don’t hinge on twist

01:03:42.360 –> 01:03:45.300
endings and since we kind of spoiled some for

01:03:45.300 –> 01:03:47.639
you guys if If you sat through this and you’re

01:03:47.639 –> 01:03:50.900
like, you motherfuckers go check out the skin

01:03:50.900 –> 01:03:54.039
I live in and time crimes. Those both are phenomenal

01:03:54.039 –> 01:03:57.820
movies. They get pretty interesting. Nice. Yeah.

01:03:58.340 –> 01:03:59.980
Yeah. I got a bunch I want to check out now,

01:04:00.000 –> 01:04:02.860
even though I know the ending. Well, let’s say,

01:04:02.860 –> 01:04:04.280
you know, the ending doesn’t actually like, I

01:04:04.280 –> 01:04:06.860
think, take away from my. my ability to enjoy

01:04:06.860 –> 01:04:08.760
it whenever it’s spoiled. So there’s some that

01:04:08.760 –> 01:04:10.159
you guys said I haven’t seen. I’m like, I’m going

01:04:10.159 –> 01:04:11.760
to check that shit out, too. So that’s cool.

01:04:11.940 –> 01:04:17.440
I’m too sensitive. Or I think too much about

01:04:17.440 –> 01:04:20.780
movies when I watch them. Yeah. Cool. Cool. All

01:04:20.780 –> 01:04:22.679
right. Well, thanks for listening, everybody.

01:04:23.059 –> 01:04:25.320
Tune in next week where we’re going to have a

01:04:25.320 –> 01:04:28.099
special episode for you. Until then, keep it

01:04:28.099 –> 01:04:36.280
twisty. And that’s gonna do it for today’s episode

01:04:36.280 –> 01:04:38.920
of Nightmare Logic. For today’s show notes, stop

01:04:38.920 –> 01:04:42.400
by our website at NightmareLogic .net and follow

01:04:42.400 –> 01:04:46.079
us on Instagram at NightmareLogicPod. We’re your

01:04:46.079 –> 01:04:48.760
hosts, Christopher Smith, Peter Sawyer, and Taffeta

01:04:48.760 –> 01:04:51.900
Darling. We’d like to say thank you to our composer

01:04:51.900 –> 01:04:54.739
Lars Lang -Petersen for our score. Thanks for

01:04:54.739 –> 01:04:56.420
tuning in and we’ll catch you next time.