The Dark Side of Star Wars With Ken Napzok

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Welcome back to nightmare logic the official

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podcast for the dark side of the force where

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your Sith overlords Christopher Smith Peter Sawyer

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and after darling today We’re in the belly of

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the sarlacc with expert Ken knapsack so he can

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educate us about the horrors found in the Star

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Wars universe All right, all right, all right

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guys, so Here we are how How’s your week been

00:00:31.589 –> 00:00:34.369
anything in the week? Good week. Good week. Busy

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week. Had a good weekend. I actually watched

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some shit. Got some shit done. Yeah. I saw on

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Instagram. What did you, what’d you watch? The

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most important movie of all time. It was, we,

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we were treated, uh, to the, uh, Frida cinema

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for the, uh, big trouble in little China. 40th

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anniversary screening. They had out there with

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James packed, uh, and Alan, uh, what is it? Hey

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worth. Hey worth. And then who’s the other guy?

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Gerald. I’m terrible with names. There was a

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nice mix of fans there. It was cool to get out

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to Santa Ana. I hadn’t been there in a while,

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and I hadn’t been to that part of town, even

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though I’d lived there for a little bit. It was

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neat. It was cool. It was pretty neat to see.

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I’ve only been out here for seven months now,

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so I’m still trying to hit up a lot of cool theaters,

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and this is one that I hadn’t been to, that I

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really wanted to. And what I like about it is

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that, like, you know, it is a charitable, it’s

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a nonprofit, like everyone there, like volunteers

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their time, everyone who’s behind the counter

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or in the projection room or, you know, cleaning,

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whatever. It’s all volunteer based. And so that’s

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actually really kind of nice to know that it’s

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out there. It’s like, you know, it is an art

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house, you know, but whatever. But it also shows

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some fun stuff. Cool. It’s kind of like kind

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of like I don’t know if you’ve been to videos

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up here, but I have. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah,

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it doesn’t have like the rental, whatever. But

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I like that it has two theaters, which was kind

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of neat because most of the ones that I’ve seen

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out here that are older or smaller are all like

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one theater, you know, just the one. at the bottom,

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but this had two, which was kind of cool. And

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it made for a fun night because they had the

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thing in Big Trouble in Little China, like back

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to back. I realized later we probably could have

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stayed for the thing, but I didn’t know that.

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And it was late night. But yeah, you know, I’ve

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already done one double feature of John Carpenter

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out in Gardena. So it was fun to go out and chase,

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you know, chase John Carpenter out in Santa Ana

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this time. Right on. And you and I think you

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watched What’s that movie of the night? The Dreadful.

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The Dreadful. That’s what it was. Yeah. OK, so

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this came out a couple of months ago, you know,

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and the big thing about it is it’s Sophie Turner

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and Kit Harrington from Game of Thrones. You

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know, everyone’s real excited to see them, you

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know, older and on the screen and doing their

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thing. But it also has Patricia Gay Harden, who

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I fucking like just love, you know, like she

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channels like all of her missed energy of like,

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you know, they’re fucking crazy in this. It’s

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a horror, a historical horror piece, you know,

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I think. My main takeaway from it is I really

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felt like they could have kept them from not

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actually becoming a couple, and I think the story

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could have been different, but it almost felt

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like, at a good pace, about a three out of five,

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pretty much like her Sophie Turner’s character’s

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husband is off at war and gets stuck there, and

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then Harrington comes back. and like all this

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weird shit starts happening and like there’s

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a lot of like, you know, really ominous shit.

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And then when you find out, I can’t really say

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much about it without giving it away because

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it’s like that’s all there is. But, you know,

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said it immediately times and like all this weird

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shit starts happening with like, you know. Murders

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and ghosts and shit like that. So anyways, Peter

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and I talked about it a couple of times. Would

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you guys already see it? No, no, no, we just

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talked about it was being released and it just

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didn’t have great reviews. So, you know, it There’s

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like two or three spots where I felt like it

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could have cut off, you know, and for me, like

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the cast is really what, you know, piqued my

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interest. And I like a good historical drama

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or whatever. But yeah, I think probably by the

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third act, it could have ended like by the second.

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And it just felt like they didn’t know how to

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wrap it up. But in the third act is when they

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pushed, you know, Kit Harrington and Sophie Turner

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to finally have their like, you know, love scene.

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I was like, oh, OK, you guys, it just felt like,

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you know, it was like squeezed in. To me, that’s

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like lazy casting. It’s like, we all know. You

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know, but they were really good. You know, it

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was good acting for what it was. It just feels

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like they’re trying to like. Yes, capture the

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like magic without it, you know, like it’s yeah,

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I get it. They were brother and sister. Ha ha.

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It’s like that’s so weird to like, you know,

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even try to like go into that, you know, that

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a whole genre or whatever of the fantasy of it.

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But it was yeah, it felt like the last part of

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it is just like, all right, now let’s how can

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we squeeze them in to get naked together? But

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if you like that sort of stuff and you like Game

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of Thrones and you’ve been curious, I mean, it’s

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it’s really close to it if you just don’t listen.

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So it’s a small Game of Thrones reunion then,

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right? Because both weren’t both of them on the

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show. Yeah, they were both Starks. Yeah, yeah.

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They were big characters and never had their

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own like romance on the screen. Obviously, that

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was the Lannisters. But yeah, you know, I was

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real curious about it and. I guess, um, I read

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it was based off like some Japanese movie from

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1964. What is it? Um, Kenito Shido’s 1964 Japanese

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horror, uh, Anibaba, which I’m not familiar with.

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Um, but I want to go look that up, but this is

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apparently inspired by that. So, um, I do want

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to watch it and kind of compare now and see and

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be like, Hmm. I would not have gotten that from

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the trailer of it. But if you look up Anibaba,

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like I’ve not seen that, but that’s on my list.

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It just looks fucking crazy. In a really good

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way. It definitely had the potential, but they

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said they dropped it in the third act when they

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were more concerned about romance than the actual

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story. Romance. Yeah. I mean, I downloaded Shudder.

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I finally got Shudder because season two is now

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dropped for Tales from the Crypt. And so I went

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back and started watching a lot of my faves from

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season two. See, this is how they get you. I

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mean, that’s literally the only reason I have

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Shudder is for Tales from the Crypt now, so yes.

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They have some cool movies that you might not

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see otherwise. You just have to kind of know

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what to look for. I’m sure there’s some good

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stuff out there and I’m sure we’ll get some recs

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and you recommend some stuff too that I’ll probably

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look for some titles on there. But yeah, mainly

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it’s for Tales from the Crypt. One of the things

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I actually watched was I think it’s Shudder or

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it’s AMC. It was on Amazon Prime is. So I think

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we talked about the terror, the show that had

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come out a couple of years ago, and I didn’t

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realize it was like an anthology and that every

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season is like different. And the first one’s

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based on the Dan Simmons book. But the episode

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for the new one is called Devil and Silver. And

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that’s based on a book by Victor Lavelle. And

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I thought that was pretty interesting. It was.

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You know it had some pretty wild moments basically

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Dan Stevens is a New Yorker who is with his like

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girlfriend and she already has a kid He’s like

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a you know a little kid not a baby and he he

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sees the the ex or the father Kind of roughing

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them up or talking to him when he runs over and

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he starts fighting them and he gets tackled by

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other guys He starts fighting them not knowing

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they’re cops and then he gets thrown into this

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this kind of like medical ward for people who

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were unstable, but it’s haunted and it kind of

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goes from there. But yeah, it shows promise.

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The pilot just had dropped. So I figured that’s

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very relevant. And it’s directed by. What is

00:07:46.269 –> 00:07:50.709
her name? She did Karen Kusama, and she’s known

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for like Jennifer’s body and the invitation.

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And Ridley Scott has been a producer of the series

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as well. So it’s got some some names. Chris,

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I’m assuming you were too underwater to watch

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anything. No, actually, I watched the first two

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episodes of Widows Bay on Apple. Nice, nice.

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Which I’m really digging. I think they have four

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out so far. I’m going to watch that today. Yeah,

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it’s got a really cool tone of like. Well, for

00:08:22.269 –> 00:08:25.129
those who don’t know it. It’s set in this small,

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presumably New England town that has for a long

00:08:30.370 –> 00:08:33.389
time had these like periods of like bad things

00:08:33.389 –> 00:08:35.730
happening, I guess. And it kind of follows the

00:08:35.730 –> 00:08:39.549
new mayor of the town who isn’t wasn’t born there.

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He didn’t grow up there. And he’s trying to get

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the town to be a little bit more of a destination

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for tourists. And it’s kind of the clash with

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the locals who believe the town is cursed and

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Uh, and I think he’s kind of like, they don’t

00:08:56.450 –> 00:08:58.909
really say in the first two episodes, but like,

00:08:59.049 –> 00:09:02.450
has this kind of like, uh, other local who he’s

00:09:02.450 –> 00:09:03.950
butting heads with who might’ve been the previous

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town mayor. Anyways, the point is that it’s like,

00:09:06.870 –> 00:09:08.570
something’s unfolding. We don’t know exactly

00:09:08.570 –> 00:09:10.470
what yet, and it seems like something bad’s about

00:09:10.470 –> 00:09:12.909
to happen. And the tone is really great. It’s

00:09:12.909 –> 00:09:16.350
like, manages to walk a nice balance between

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scary or spooky at least, and, uh, comedy and,

00:09:22.769 –> 00:09:25.549
uh, You know, I’m excited to see where it goes.

00:09:25.909 –> 00:09:28.730
Right on. I had not heard of that, so that’s

00:09:28.730 –> 00:09:30.690
certainly new to me. Yeah. Well, Apple TV is

00:09:30.690 –> 00:09:31.950
not known for horror. You know, they’re more

00:09:31.950 –> 00:09:34.789
of a sci -fi platform. Very indie stuff. Although

00:09:34.789 –> 00:09:36.870
they’ve got some good horror stuff. What is it

00:09:36.870 –> 00:09:40.090
that’s on there? I guess it’s still more sci

00:09:40.090 –> 00:09:41.809
-fi, but they had some pretty. Yeah, they got

00:09:41.809 –> 00:09:44.850
some like kind of darker sci -fi. Some thrillers.

00:09:44.909 –> 00:09:46.850
Yeah, I guess more thrillers and chillers. But

00:09:46.850 –> 00:09:50.120
I have been curious about. Widows Bay, because

00:09:50.120 –> 00:09:54.159
I’m a huge fan of Mike Flanagan’s Midnight Mass.

00:09:55.139 –> 00:09:58.799
It’s got a similar vibe. It’s got that Lovecraftian

00:09:58.799 –> 00:10:00.600
weird vibe. It seems like it’s got a bit of a

00:10:00.600 –> 00:10:02.240
Salem’s Lot thing. If we can trace that back

00:10:02.240 –> 00:10:04.759
to Stephen King. I mean, the writing’s obviously

00:10:04.759 –> 00:10:07.820
different than Flanagan’s way he does it. But

00:10:07.820 –> 00:10:11.019
the setting is like reminded me of Midnight Mass

00:10:11.019 –> 00:10:13.620
for sure. That’s cool. We’ll have to catch up

00:10:13.620 –> 00:10:15.379
on that. Did either of you guys watch anything

00:10:15.379 –> 00:10:18.039
else? I do have one other thing I meant to mention.

00:10:18.279 –> 00:10:20.720
No, I didn’t see anything else. Well, hopefully

00:10:20.720 –> 00:10:22.940
this week you’ll get around to more stuff if

00:10:22.940 –> 00:10:26.840
you have more time. I also was able to catch

00:10:26.840 –> 00:10:29.820
Ready or Not 2, which I really like is called

00:10:29.820 –> 00:10:32.799
Ready or Not 2 Here I Come. I thought that was

00:10:32.799 –> 00:10:35.460
clever. And it’s the Ready Radio Silence guys

00:10:35.460 –> 00:10:38.779
again, which is the duo. It’s Matt, Bettinelli,

00:10:39.240 –> 00:10:43.440
Open and Tyler Gillette. And it takes place immediately

00:10:43.440 –> 00:10:48.389
after the first one. where Samara’s weaving character

00:10:48.389 –> 00:10:51.809
has just kind of survived this chaotic situation.

00:10:52.549 –> 00:10:55.450
And it turns out the first family is dead. Obviously,

00:10:55.529 –> 00:10:59.509
spoiler if you’ve not seen that. But they were

00:10:59.509 –> 00:11:03.529
part of a bigger satanic council of families

00:11:03.529 –> 00:11:05.509
who now have to take turn. They’re all going

00:11:05.509 –> 00:11:09.370
to hunt her to gain power. So it features her

00:11:09.370 –> 00:11:11.690
and her sister trying to survive this situation.

00:11:12.759 –> 00:11:15.940
Sarah Michelle Geller, isn’t it? Elijah Wood

00:11:15.940 –> 00:11:19.379
and even David Cronenberg and Katherine Newton

00:11:19.379 –> 00:11:23.539
plays Weaving’s younger sister. And I was pretty

00:11:23.539 –> 00:11:27.639
stoked to see Sean Hattosay, I think that’s how

00:11:27.639 –> 00:11:30.320
you say his name, pop up. He was staying in the

00:11:30.320 –> 00:11:32.100
faculty and I don’t think I’ve seen him in anything

00:11:32.100 –> 00:11:35.120
since. So you had him and Elijah Wood from the

00:11:35.120 –> 00:11:36.580
faculty. Yeah, I was about to say it feels like

00:11:36.580 –> 00:11:40.340
an early 2000s reunion, you know? Oh, yeah, a

00:11:40.340 –> 00:11:44.929
little bit. and it’s it’s if you like the first

00:11:44.929 –> 00:11:49.269
one I think you’d like this it’s gory it’s got

00:11:49.269 –> 00:11:53.769
you know the same kind of things going on it’s

00:11:53.769 –> 00:11:55.789
it’s kind of like the movie I mentioned last

00:11:55.789 –> 00:11:58.269
time which was they’re gonna kill you I think

00:11:58.269 –> 00:12:00.509
that’s what it was called but like all these

00:12:00.509 –> 00:12:03.830
movies are kind of like stem from the most dangerous

00:12:03.830 –> 00:12:07.129
game in different ways and that’s more of an

00:12:07.129 –> 00:12:10.250
observation than a criticism But also, it’s like

00:12:10.250 –> 00:12:12.929
you have these kind of horror comedies with gore

00:12:12.929 –> 00:12:15.370
that don’t really have the horror tone. They’re

00:12:15.370 –> 00:12:17.649
more like they lean on being fun and comedic,

00:12:17.649 –> 00:12:21.389
I guess. But I enjoyed it. Yeah, actually, I

00:12:21.389 –> 00:12:23.610
was listening to the most recent Colors of the

00:12:23.610 –> 00:12:27.090
Night podcast and they brought up a point similar

00:12:27.090 –> 00:12:29.029
to you, which is like either horror comedies

00:12:29.029 –> 00:12:31.470
are more comedy than horror or more horror than

00:12:31.470 –> 00:12:35.509
comedy. And it’s hard to find that sort of sweet

00:12:35.509 –> 00:12:38.080
spot, which is actually like he’s. are saying

00:12:38.080 –> 00:12:40.259
about that. It’s kind of how Widows Bay is. I

00:12:40.259 –> 00:12:42.279
thought they, you know, they do a good job of

00:12:42.279 –> 00:12:45.399
it. Yeah, I think it’s you just have to have

00:12:45.399 –> 00:12:47.360
scares. Like if you’re going to do a horror comedy,

00:12:47.539 –> 00:12:51.840
have scary moments. Don’t just have like suspense,

00:12:51.879 –> 00:12:54.240
but like make things actually kind of frightening

00:12:54.240 –> 00:12:56.700
in the way that horror movies should be. Right.

00:12:56.919 –> 00:12:58.700
You know, and a lot of them don’t have like,

00:12:58.700 –> 00:13:01.159
I guess that it’s not really in the DNA of what

00:13:01.159 –> 00:13:02.820
they’re the story they’re trying to tell or something.

00:13:03.659 –> 00:13:06.299
But right. Um, but it was, it was entertaining

00:13:06.299 –> 00:13:08.799
and I did, I did like it, but just go in knowing

00:13:08.799 –> 00:13:10.759
it’s like, okay, it’s more of a comedy with,

00:13:10.759 –> 00:13:15.039
with blood than straight up horror. Right. Right.

00:13:15.279 –> 00:13:18.539
Cool. Right on. Well, let’s jump into the news.

00:13:18.620 –> 00:13:21.179
What do you guys think? So apparently the first

00:13:21.179 –> 00:13:24.259
reactions for the back rooms has hit social media

00:13:24.259 –> 00:13:28.879
and apparently they’re all really, uh, it seems

00:13:28.879 –> 00:13:31.559
to be well received so far. And for those who

00:13:31.559 –> 00:13:33.279
don’t know, The Backrooms is a film dropping

00:13:33.279 –> 00:13:35.700
on May 29th. It’s directed by and written by

00:13:35.700 –> 00:13:37.940
Cain Parsons. And it started as like kind of

00:13:37.940 –> 00:13:42.860
a YouTube, a series of YouTube films. But it’s

00:13:42.860 –> 00:13:46.100
yeah. So far, really positive reactions. Pretty

00:13:46.100 –> 00:13:53.259
stoked to see it. All right. So also, apparently

00:13:53.259 –> 00:13:56.220
A Quiet Place Part Three has started filming.

00:13:56.379 –> 00:13:58.159
Wait, I thought there were there were there.

00:13:58.419 –> 00:14:00.539
Isn’t there three of them? There’s three, yeah.

00:14:00.820 –> 00:14:05.200
There’s two. There’s a third one, though. I think

00:14:05.200 –> 00:14:06.779
that might have been like a prequel or something.

00:14:06.899 –> 00:14:09.679
Oh, OK. I don’t know that for a fact. I’m just

00:14:09.679 –> 00:14:11.039
pulling that out. I’ve seen it. It’s the one

00:14:11.039 –> 00:14:12.039
with Killian Murphy. Yeah, I’ve seen all the

00:14:12.039 –> 00:14:14.240
ones that have come out that are tied to that

00:14:14.240 –> 00:14:16.639
name or something like that. Right. You’ll be

00:14:16.639 –> 00:14:19.259
pleased to know that Killian Murphy is also going

00:14:19.259 –> 00:14:22.100
to be in this one, along with Emily Blunt, Millicent

00:14:22.100 –> 00:14:24.779
Simmons, Noah Jupe, Jack O ‘Connell, Katie O

00:14:24.779 –> 00:14:28.129
‘Brien. Pretty good. cast, but you know, a lot

00:14:28.129 –> 00:14:31.389
of them are the prior ones. But I only saw the

00:14:31.389 –> 00:14:33.710
first one. Did you guys like the sequels? The

00:14:33.710 –> 00:14:35.350
second one I liked because we got a little bit

00:14:35.350 –> 00:14:38.070
more of like what the hell happened sort of thing,

00:14:38.070 –> 00:14:40.830
you know, and I appreciated that. I felt like

00:14:40.830 –> 00:14:43.269
the third one I was I didn’t I don’t even remember

00:14:43.269 –> 00:14:45.289
the third one. Like I remember kind of the cast

00:14:45.289 –> 00:14:47.110
and I know I watched it because I had enjoyed

00:14:47.110 –> 00:14:49.950
the first two, but I don’t think I could really

00:14:49.950 –> 00:14:52.009
even tell you what happens at the end of the

00:14:52.009 –> 00:14:55.289
third one. So I’ll have to catch up. I thought

00:14:55.289 –> 00:14:57.470
that the third one was kind of cool because it

00:14:57.470 –> 00:15:00.570
starts in like inner city what I think it’s New

00:15:00.570 –> 00:15:03.049
York City where the shit shit’s hitting the fan

00:15:03.049 –> 00:15:06.750
and so They have the budget to kind of justify

00:15:06.750 –> 00:15:09.350
showing that So I thought that was kind of interesting

00:15:09.350 –> 00:15:10.909
to see it because of course the city is like

00:15:10.909 –> 00:15:14.570
crazy loud, right? So yeah. Yeah. So what you

00:15:14.570 –> 00:15:16.649
guys are calling the third one it is a prequel

00:15:16.649 –> 00:15:19.649
According to this so technically this is part

00:15:19.649 –> 00:15:23.480
three and then the third one was a prequel But

00:15:23.480 –> 00:15:25.440
yeah. OK, yeah. Well, yeah. Which is explains

00:15:25.440 –> 00:15:26.940
why it’s in New York, because it’s like it’s

00:15:26.940 –> 00:15:28.980
called day one. So it’s like. Right, right, right.

00:15:29.220 –> 00:15:32.200
That makes sense. I just yeah, it’s like some

00:15:32.200 –> 00:15:35.039
movies. I guess when you watch a lot of movies,

00:15:35.940 –> 00:15:39.279
modern movies, so many of them are sort of digestible

00:15:39.279 –> 00:15:41.320
because you just you just watch it and like that

00:15:41.320 –> 00:15:44.279
was cool. And then like it could be decent. But

00:15:44.279 –> 00:15:46.620
like a year or two later, you’re like, yeah,

00:15:46.620 –> 00:15:48.559
I’ve seen that, but I can’t. It’s kind of like

00:15:48.559 –> 00:15:51.100
what Taffet is saying. I think, yeah, the first

00:15:51.100 –> 00:15:54.990
one really left the impact. You know, it’s like

00:15:54.990 –> 00:15:57.590
prequel, not prequel. So many films are like,

00:15:57.590 –> 00:15:59.649
it’s the sequel, but it takes place at a different

00:15:59.649 –> 00:16:02.029
time period or it’s like a completely different

00:16:02.029 –> 00:16:04.610
cast and they’re just, you know, part of the

00:16:04.610 –> 00:16:06.970
same universe. Like it, it’s so hard to define

00:16:06.970 –> 00:16:09.929
what’s like, you know, truly a sequel these days.

00:16:10.590 –> 00:16:14.289
Uh, yeah. So apparently Peacock has set a release

00:16:14.289 –> 00:16:17.830
date for the Friday, the 13th prequel series,

00:16:18.049 –> 00:16:20.409
Crystal Lake, speaking of prequels. And that’s

00:16:20.409 –> 00:16:23.879
going to be on October 15th. And so for those

00:16:23.879 –> 00:16:25.840
who don’t know, Crystal Lake tells the origin

00:16:25.840 –> 00:16:28.500
story of the Voorhees family, and it kind of

00:16:28.500 –> 00:16:32.100
leads up to the birth of Jason, the slasher.

00:16:32.320 –> 00:16:35.840
So but I think it primarily kind of like focuses

00:16:35.840 –> 00:16:38.120
on the residents of the town that the sleepaway

00:16:38.120 –> 00:16:40.399
camp that he famously goes and murders everyone

00:16:40.399 –> 00:16:45.740
at. So curious to see how that is. It’s the showrunners,

00:16:45.980 –> 00:16:49.480
Brad Kane, who also did like Welcome to Derry.

00:16:49.870 –> 00:16:53.269
And I imagine it’ll probably have a similar vibe,

00:16:53.269 –> 00:16:56.870
but I’m not entirely sure. Linda Cardellini is

00:16:56.870 –> 00:17:00.409
in it, right? Yeah, she’s the star. She’s great.

00:17:01.490 –> 00:17:04.509
I’m interested to see. I think she’s Pamela Voorhees.

00:17:04.809 –> 00:17:09.509
I’m not mistaken. Jason’s mom. Cool. So that’ll

00:17:09.509 –> 00:17:13.349
be interesting. Yeah, totally. Brad Kane also

00:17:13.349 –> 00:17:15.869
did Tokyo Vice, which is not horror in any way,

00:17:15.950 –> 00:17:19.640
but I love that show. It’s so good. And, uh,

00:17:19.640 –> 00:17:21.480
if you haven’t checked it out, it’s, it’s like

00:17:21.480 –> 00:17:24.460
set in Japan in the nineties about like a reporter

00:17:24.460 –> 00:17:29.099
basically reporting on and kind of infiltrating

00:17:29.099 –> 00:17:32.579
the, uh, the Yakuza. And it’s just, it’s done

00:17:32.579 –> 00:17:35.980
by, um, Michael Mann. It’s just so good. It’s

00:17:35.980 –> 00:17:38.980
so beautiful. Love that. How old is that? Not

00:17:38.980 –> 00:17:40.779
too old. A couple of years ago. It’s on, it’s

00:17:40.779 –> 00:17:45.339
on HBO. Great. The next story, apparently Ryan

00:17:45.339 –> 00:17:47.630
Coogler’s X -Files reboot. They’ve announced

00:17:47.630 –> 00:17:51.930
some key guest stars, including Amy Madigan of

00:17:51.930 –> 00:17:54.930
Weapons fame. So that’s pretty exciting. As long

00:17:54.930 –> 00:17:56.910
with Steve Buscemi, who’s like one of my personal

00:17:56.910 –> 00:18:01.410
favorite actors, Ben Foster, Deveree Jacobs,

00:18:01.829 –> 00:18:04.990
Lachlan Monroe, Tantoo Cardinal, who I’m not

00:18:04.990 –> 00:18:07.769
familiar with, but was in The Last Manhattan

00:18:07.769 –> 00:18:10.700
and Legends of the Fall, which My high school

00:18:10.700 –> 00:18:12.920
self really loved that movie, so that’s cool.

00:18:14.619 –> 00:18:16.880
Nice. So, yeah, so it’s going to be, I think,

00:18:16.980 –> 00:18:18.380
I don’t know, it’s sounding like it’s going to

00:18:18.380 –> 00:18:20.400
be a good series. I’m looking forward to seeing

00:18:20.400 –> 00:18:23.740
the reboot. I’m just excited that Amy Madigan

00:18:23.740 –> 00:18:25.380
is going to get some more roles. I love that

00:18:25.380 –> 00:18:27.599
for her. Like, that’s great. I have a feeling

00:18:27.599 –> 00:18:29.160
we’re going to see her in a lot of things in

00:18:29.160 –> 00:18:31.380
the coming years. Yeah, because she had kind

00:18:31.380 –> 00:18:34.480
of been off the grid, I feel like, prior to this,

00:18:34.559 –> 00:18:35.940
because I don’t remember the last thing I saw

00:18:35.940 –> 00:18:39.809
her in prior to weapons. There was something

00:18:39.809 –> 00:18:43.009
that I’m forgetting, but sometimes you just don’t

00:18:43.009 –> 00:18:45.009
see actors for a while and they get appear in

00:18:45.009 –> 00:18:46.589
something. You’re like, oh, yeah, that person.

00:18:47.130 –> 00:18:49.170
Totally. For me, it was Uncle Buck. Like as soon

00:18:49.170 –> 00:18:51.390
as I saw the trailers of weapons, I was like,

00:18:51.490 –> 00:18:53.490
it’s Shanice. And that was just I was like, I’m

00:18:53.490 –> 00:18:55.190
stoked. I just thought she was like the coolest

00:18:55.190 –> 00:18:56.890
lady in my day. Like, you know, she was like

00:18:56.890 –> 00:18:59.849
the coolest female in the John Hughes universe

00:18:59.849 –> 00:19:02.930
back in the day. She was field of dreams, right?

00:19:03.009 –> 00:19:05.569
Wasn’t she in that as well? I think so, the wife,

00:19:05.750 –> 00:19:09.220
right? Yeah. And there’s plenty of movies she’s

00:19:09.220 –> 00:19:11.079
been in, but it’s just like, yeah, Uncle Buck,

00:19:11.220 –> 00:19:12.859
it mattered that to me, it’s the nostalgia of

00:19:12.859 –> 00:19:15.019
the 80s. Totally. And, you know, what’s great

00:19:15.019 –> 00:19:18.180
is everybody, all the other actors and actresses

00:19:18.180 –> 00:19:21.140
seem to love her, which is great. Like it seems

00:19:21.140 –> 00:19:23.220
like everybody wants to see her do well. So that’s

00:19:23.220 –> 00:19:27.859
cool. Great. And then this last story here, I

00:19:27.859 –> 00:19:30.539
chose for you, Taffeta, you probably already

00:19:30.539 –> 00:19:34.940
familiar, but apparently Batman Nightfall Part

00:19:34.940 –> 00:19:38.509
One. Yes, will be will premiere at Warner Brothers

00:19:38.509 –> 00:19:40.910
Industry Showcase coming up soon. Yeah, no, I’m

00:19:40.910 –> 00:19:42.589
stoked. Yeah. Yeah. That was actually something

00:19:42.589 –> 00:19:44.009
I was going to bring up. So good for you, because

00:19:44.009 –> 00:19:45.750
I totally forgot about that. But yeah, we get

00:19:45.750 –> 00:19:49.269
a little bit of the more dark side of Batman.

00:19:49.589 –> 00:19:53.009
So I’m stoked for that. Is that live action?

00:19:53.309 –> 00:19:55.609
Yeah. Well, so for those who don’t know at home

00:19:55.609 –> 00:19:59.089
or and also Peter, apparently Batman, I follow

00:19:59.089 –> 00:20:02.730
the three part animated series and each part

00:20:02.730 –> 00:20:05.619
is a feature is like a feature film length. And

00:20:05.619 –> 00:20:09.640
it’s based on iconic 1993, 94 Batman story arc,

00:20:09.759 –> 00:20:12.140
which Taffeta, I should just let you explain

00:20:12.140 –> 00:20:15.019
it because you understand. You got this. Go.

00:20:15.599 –> 00:20:17.960
So it’s a it’s a Batman story arc that focuses

00:20:17.960 –> 00:20:24.220
on Bane, who releases all of the, I guess, other

00:20:24.220 –> 00:20:26.519
criminals and things from the Insane Asylum,

00:20:26.599 –> 00:20:30.380
the Arkham Insane Asylum. And according to Dread

00:20:30.380 –> 00:20:34.200
Central, it adapts the classic Nightfall storyline.

00:20:34.619 –> 00:20:37.619
which Gotham City faces escalating chaos after

00:20:37.619 –> 00:20:39.420
the ruthless villain Bane orchestrates a campaign

00:20:39.420 –> 00:20:41.420
to physically and psychologically exhaust Batman

00:20:41.420 –> 00:20:44.079
before confronting him directly. And as Batman

00:20:44.079 –> 00:20:46.759
struggles to contain a citywide crime wave and

00:20:46.759 –> 00:20:48.920
mounting threats from Arkham’s escaped criminals,

00:20:49.160 –> 00:20:51.480
Bane seeks to prove himself the superior force

00:20:51.480 –> 00:20:54.119
by breaking Gotham’s protector, both mentally

00:20:54.119 –> 00:20:57.099
and physically, forcing Bruce Wayne to confront

00:20:57.099 –> 00:20:58.859
the limits of his endurance, his mission and

00:20:58.859 –> 00:21:01.759
what it truly means to be Batman. Also, apparently

00:21:01.759 –> 00:21:04.200
the inspiration for the Dark Knight trilogy.

00:21:05.400 –> 00:21:08.000
A little bit of that, yes. This is like the main

00:21:08.000 –> 00:21:10.500
story where Bane actually broke Batman’s back.

00:21:10.759 –> 00:21:13.359
I remember that. And you see a little bit of

00:21:13.359 –> 00:21:17.299
it in the movies that we got from Nolan. There’s

00:21:17.299 –> 00:21:20.099
kind of a moment whenever he tries to slam him

00:21:20.099 –> 00:21:25.240
and stuff. Taffeta question, Batman question.

00:21:25.660 –> 00:21:29.799
Has he ever died in the comics? Yeah. He comes

00:21:29.799 –> 00:21:32.900
back. Well, that’s what got me thinking. It’s

00:21:32.900 –> 00:21:35.420
like you can kill superheroes in comics and it’s

00:21:35.420 –> 00:21:37.279
all good because then you can have another storyline,

00:21:37.460 –> 00:21:39.980
whereas just ignore that, right? Essentially.

00:21:40.259 –> 00:21:41.839
Yeah. I mean, like, whenever you do like the

00:21:41.839 –> 00:21:43.779
Batman, you’ve got in his time to Ra’s al Ghul,

00:21:43.859 –> 00:21:45.720
then you’ve got like his little like hot pot

00:21:45.720 –> 00:21:47.160
where like, you know, he could put you down in

00:21:47.160 –> 00:21:49.019
there and like raise you back up from the dead.

00:21:49.079 –> 00:21:50.819
But you always come back kind of like must that

00:21:50.819 –> 00:21:53.400
very similar to like Pet Sematary. You know,

00:21:53.599 –> 00:21:55.140
there’s something not quite right. And he’s done

00:21:55.140 –> 00:21:59.410
that plenty of times to. Bruce and to his kids

00:21:59.410 –> 00:22:01.190
and to his own daughter. So Rachel is pretty

00:22:01.190 –> 00:22:04.309
hardcore and is his own necromancy, if you will.

00:22:04.410 –> 00:22:08.789
But yeah, the nightfall is a very strong story

00:22:08.789 –> 00:22:10.769
for Batman fans, because that was the first time

00:22:10.769 –> 00:22:14.650
that we did see Bruce, you know, crumble. And

00:22:14.650 –> 00:22:17.450
he had to like step back and had to let other

00:22:17.450 –> 00:22:19.470
people help him because he really had his back

00:22:19.470 –> 00:22:21.420
broken. So. It’s pretty hardcore. I can’t wait

00:22:21.420 –> 00:22:23.740
to see it. I’m stoked. Cool. Cool. Well, you

00:22:23.740 –> 00:22:25.559
know, a good indication, like an indication that

00:22:25.559 –> 00:22:27.759
it’s going to be good is the fact that it’s like

00:22:27.759 –> 00:22:31.420
front center at their industry showcase. So like

00:22:31.420 –> 00:22:33.539
they obviously have a lot of faith in it doing

00:22:33.539 –> 00:22:35.319
well. Yeah, they announced it, I think, last

00:22:35.319 –> 00:22:38.240
year, maybe the year before that. And DC really

00:22:38.240 –> 00:22:40.259
does have a great animation team. Like all the

00:22:40.259 –> 00:22:42.640
DC movies are some of my favorite DC movies,

00:22:42.799 –> 00:22:44.359
regardless of it being like, you know, animated

00:22:44.359 –> 00:22:47.420
or whatever. But yeah, their animation team is

00:22:47.420 –> 00:22:50.240
pretty legit. So I love everything they put out,

00:22:50.339 –> 00:22:52.579
except for some of the some of the elsewhere

00:22:52.579 –> 00:22:55.720
stuff. But for the most part, I’m stoked. Great.

00:22:55.859 –> 00:22:58.539
Well, so that is Batman Nightfall, part one,

00:22:58.559 –> 00:23:00.940
and it’s written by Jeremy Adams and directed

00:23:00.940 –> 00:23:04.309
by Jeff. Wham Master, who has done a number of

00:23:04.309 –> 00:23:08.269
other sort of superhero and animated projects.

00:23:09.289 –> 00:23:11.450
Oh, fun story. Remember when we went to horror

00:23:11.450 –> 00:23:13.549
trivia, Peter, and they’re like, hey, does anyone

00:23:13.549 –> 00:23:15.309
need an extra person on the team, particularly

00:23:15.309 –> 00:23:17.089
like a horror writer that’s in town for blah,

00:23:17.089 –> 00:23:20.599
blah, blah? That was Jeremy Adams, the writer

00:23:20.599 –> 00:23:23.200
of this movie. He’s he’s writing some other stuff.

00:23:23.359 –> 00:23:24.819
But I just thought that was funny. You pointed

00:23:24.819 –> 00:23:27.099
him out. Yeah. Yeah. Because they had said that

00:23:27.099 –> 00:23:28.319
they’re like, hey, does anyone need someone?

00:23:28.359 –> 00:23:30.779
And I was like, I wonder who it is. Anyways,

00:23:30.980 –> 00:23:33.559
just circle back around that Jeremy Adams is

00:23:33.559 –> 00:23:35.279
going to be writing that. So that’s what’s great

00:23:35.279 –> 00:23:38.160
about L .A. is any random night at the horror

00:23:38.160 –> 00:23:40.240
trivia, something like Jeremy Adams shows up.

00:23:40.359 –> 00:23:42.559
Yeah. Well, that’s it for my news. You guys have

00:23:42.559 –> 00:23:45.349
anything you want to share? I have a sort of

00:23:45.349 –> 00:23:47.750
funny story based on something I saw on Instagram

00:23:47.750 –> 00:23:51.789
last night. I guess like the Netflix is a joke.

00:23:52.309 –> 00:23:54.549
Did Patton Oswald. I think that’s what it’s from.

00:23:55.069 –> 00:23:57.369
He was bringing up the point and this was like

00:23:57.369 –> 00:23:59.369
to set up a punch line but he’s like all your

00:23:59.369 –> 00:24:03.670
favorite movies are are directed by men and they’re

00:24:03.670 –> 00:24:07.769
edited by women and I’m always like Mr. Contrary

00:24:07.769 –> 00:24:10.130
and so I was like really? So I of course the

00:24:10.130 –> 00:24:12.759
first person I look up is John Carpenter. all

00:24:12.759 –> 00:24:15.460
dudes edited his stuff. So then I move on to

00:24:15.460 –> 00:24:19.400
George Romero dudes edited his stuff. But like

00:24:19.400 –> 00:24:23.259
everyone else that he posted or you can think

00:24:23.259 –> 00:24:26.240
of does have female editors, which is pretty

00:24:26.240 –> 00:24:28.599
interesting. I did not know that. There’s a lot

00:24:28.599 –> 00:24:32.589
of female editors as an editor myself. Definitely

00:24:32.589 –> 00:24:34.509
have noticed that too. But I wouldn’t I don’t

00:24:34.509 –> 00:24:36.250
know. There’s a lot of male editors, too. I’m

00:24:36.250 –> 00:24:38.470
not sure. Oh, of course. It’s just I was like,

00:24:38.490 –> 00:24:40.130
he’s like your favorite movies. I’m like, well,

00:24:40.230 –> 00:24:42.529
John Carpenter is my my guy. So let’s see if

00:24:42.529 –> 00:24:46.009
there’s truth. Yeah. I was like, what? But I

00:24:46.009 –> 00:24:48.130
was not about to post that on there. Yet eaten

00:24:48.130 –> 00:24:53.710
alive. Cool. All right. Well, Taffeta, do you

00:24:53.710 –> 00:24:57.519
got anything you want to any breaking news? No,

00:24:57.519 –> 00:24:59.980
no breaking news. That’s, you know, I’m still

00:24:59.980 –> 00:25:04.380
here. Great. All right. Well, we did go a little

00:25:04.380 –> 00:25:06.960
long on the news, but there are actually not

00:25:06.960 –> 00:25:09.460
very many releases this week. So jumping into

00:25:09.460 –> 00:25:11.400
releases, I really am just going to talk about

00:25:11.400 –> 00:25:14.119
one and it’s one we all already know about. And

00:25:14.119 –> 00:25:18.119
this is for the weekend of May 15th. And that,

00:25:18.119 –> 00:25:20.099
I mean, there are, you know, other releases,

00:25:20.119 –> 00:25:22.279
but in the sort of horror genre world, we really,

00:25:22.359 –> 00:25:25.420
the only one worth mentioning is Obsession, which

00:25:25.849 –> 00:25:28.029
I’m sure everybody’s already got on their calendars

00:25:28.029 –> 00:25:29.990
and we’ve talked about probably in every episode

00:25:29.990 –> 00:25:33.069
for the last month or two. And that’s written

00:25:33.069 –> 00:25:35.750
and directed by Curry Baker and stars Michael

00:25:35.750 –> 00:25:39.509
Johnston, Indy Navarette and Cooper Tomlinson.

00:25:40.630 –> 00:25:43.430
And it’s about after breaking the mysterious

00:25:43.430 –> 00:25:45.650
one wish willow to win the crush’s heart, a hopeless

00:25:45.650 –> 00:25:47.750
romantic finds himself getting exactly what he

00:25:47.750 –> 00:25:50.470
asked for, but soon discovers that some desires

00:25:50.470 –> 00:25:55.269
come at a dark sinister price. You know everybody

00:25:55.269 –> 00:25:57.990
seems to love this movie I’ve still haven’t heard

00:25:57.990 –> 00:26:00.930
anything much bad about it, but I don’t know

00:26:00.930 –> 00:26:04.009
Peter or Taff and have you heard anything? Nothing

00:26:04.009 –> 00:26:08.049
bad about it. Yeah, it seems to it seems to have

00:26:08.049 –> 00:26:11.650
a pretty Yeah, a lot of love a lot of people

00:26:11.650 –> 00:26:14.309
seem to be really really into it Yeah, I don’t

00:26:14.309 –> 00:26:16.509
want to get my hopes up, but I think it’s probably

00:26:16.509 –> 00:26:18.430
pretty good. Should we all have like that instinct

00:26:18.430 –> 00:26:21.650
like nightmare logic a nightmare crew field trip

00:26:21.650 –> 00:26:25.140
to the Premiere. Yeah. So we got to see it. I

00:26:25.140 –> 00:26:27.160
think I’m going to be in Maine when it comes

00:26:27.160 –> 00:26:29.900
out. So I might see it. Yeah. When I’m out of

00:26:29.900 –> 00:26:34.819
town, your annual pilgrimage to Derry. Mm hmm.

00:26:35.039 –> 00:26:38.259
Visit Stephen King. Yeah. Go to the pet cemetery.

00:26:38.680 –> 00:26:42.559
There you go. Yeah. So I even checked, you know,

00:26:42.559 –> 00:26:44.200
to see what was coming out and streaming. And

00:26:44.200 –> 00:26:46.680
honestly, it’s just a very quiet part of the

00:26:46.680 –> 00:26:48.579
month. But, you know, at the end of the month,

00:26:48.660 –> 00:26:51.099
we’re getting a ton of like really awesome. films

00:26:51.099 –> 00:26:56.119
and releases, so pretty stoked about that. All

00:26:56.119 –> 00:26:58.799
right. Well, that brings us to our main section

00:26:58.799 –> 00:27:01.880
of the day where we are going to talk with somebody

00:27:01.880 –> 00:27:05.900
that Taffeta knows very well. Yeah, I’m stoked.

00:27:06.039 –> 00:27:08.640
I’m stoked. You know, I figured it’s that Star

00:27:08.640 –> 00:27:11.279
Wars month with it being the releases of all

00:27:11.279 –> 00:27:13.640
the movies and it’s got the made the fourth movie.

00:27:14.519 –> 00:27:16.740
you know, Revenge of the Fifth and Six, and then,

00:27:16.819 –> 00:27:18.599
of course, with the release of The Mandalorian

00:27:18.599 –> 00:27:21.160
and Grogu at the end of the month, I thought

00:27:21.160 –> 00:27:24.019
it would be fun to have the person I know who

00:27:24.019 –> 00:27:26.460
is the most educated in Star Wars lore, like

00:27:26.460 –> 00:27:29.279
inside and out, which is Ken Napsock. So he’s

00:27:29.279 –> 00:27:32.680
got a podcast, one of the longest podcasts on

00:27:32.680 –> 00:27:34.460
Star Wars. So, yeah, I’m stoked to bring him

00:27:34.460 –> 00:27:37.420
on and chat with him about Star Wars and the

00:27:37.420 –> 00:27:40.529
evil and the dark sides and horrors of it. So

00:27:40.529 –> 00:27:43.390
a little bit of movie magic we actually recorded

00:27:43.390 –> 00:27:45.910
this interview yesterday So be prepared for us

00:27:45.910 –> 00:27:47.549
to be wearing different shirts if you’re watching

00:27:47.549 –> 00:27:52.569
this on YouTube But yeah, let’s uh, let’s have

00:27:52.569 –> 00:27:57.450
a nice chat with Ken All right joining us is

00:27:57.450 –> 00:27:59.630
Ken knapsack author of the book why we love star

00:27:59.630 –> 00:28:01.690
wars the great moments that built a galaxy far

00:28:01.690 –> 00:28:04.289
far away He’s co -host of the four center podcast

00:28:04.289 –> 00:28:06.750
and hosts and produced castley talk. Did I say

00:28:06.750 –> 00:28:10.099
that right castley talk? All right Along with

00:28:10.099 –> 00:28:12.460
his own podcast feed that he does in Napsok Network,

00:28:12.599 –> 00:28:14.339
featuring the Blathering Live, the Blathering

00:28:14.339 –> 00:28:17.819
Conversations. He’s also a DJ at the Hall of

00:28:17.819 –> 00:28:21.259
Fame Music Radio, which I find fascinating. And

00:28:21.259 –> 00:28:23.759
he’s also a former producer and host for Screen

00:28:23.759 –> 00:28:26.140
Junkies and Colliders. So welcome to Nightmare

00:28:26.140 –> 00:28:28.759
Logic. Wait, also a stand up comedian, right?

00:28:35.199 –> 00:28:37.940
And he’s also a stand -up comedian, which is

00:28:37.940 –> 00:28:40.119
perfect, because you have a show coming up at

00:28:40.119 –> 00:28:42.319
the end of the month, so welcome. Hello. Hello,

00:28:42.339 –> 00:28:43.920
everybody. I’m happy to be here. I’m a little

00:28:43.920 –> 00:28:45.940
scared, because if we’re talking about horror,

00:28:46.339 –> 00:28:50.720
I get a little frightened. So you mentioned you’re

00:28:50.720 –> 00:28:52.559
not really into horror, which is great, because

00:28:52.559 –> 00:28:54.559
I don’t really know a lot about Star Wars, which

00:28:54.559 –> 00:28:57.380
has been… part of the charm of getting to know

00:28:57.380 –> 00:28:59.660
you. So I thought it would be neat to not only

00:28:59.660 –> 00:29:01.559
like, you know, kind of give some people who

00:29:01.559 –> 00:29:03.380
really aren’t Star Wars fans or don’t know much

00:29:03.380 –> 00:29:04.980
about Star Wars, but they’re into horror, maybe

00:29:04.980 –> 00:29:07.259
some like, you know, point of views in the Star

00:29:07.259 –> 00:29:10.599
Wars universe that might connect us. And also

00:29:10.599 –> 00:29:11.940
talk about some of the other cool stuff you do

00:29:11.940 –> 00:29:15.559
as well. Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah, it’s it’s

00:29:15.559 –> 00:29:17.079
not that I don’t appreciate the genre. I think

00:29:17.079 –> 00:29:19.569
it’s actually really important genre, especially

00:29:19.569 –> 00:29:23.309
in an age where free speech and expression is

00:29:23.309 –> 00:29:26.529
seemingly under attack, that horror has always

00:29:26.529 –> 00:29:28.410
had an important place in getting the right stories

00:29:28.410 –> 00:29:30.130
out for the people that often don’t get a chance

00:29:30.130 –> 00:29:32.650
to tell their stories. But it’s also really scary.

00:29:32.710 –> 00:29:34.910
And I just I grew up around the street around

00:29:34.910 –> 00:29:37.309
the corner from Elm Street in my hometown in

00:29:37.309 –> 00:29:40.990
the 80s. So it all seemed too real to me. Cool.

00:29:41.170 –> 00:29:44.809
Yeah. And horror, you know, I was thinking about

00:29:44.809 –> 00:29:48.490
this the other day that even in the first trilogy,

00:29:49.009 –> 00:29:51.690
there was it is actually pretty horrific. You

00:29:51.690 –> 00:29:54.890
know, it I think just because the fact that I

00:29:54.890 –> 00:29:57.009
grew up with it and we probably all grew up,

00:29:57.009 –> 00:29:59.390
you saw it at such an early age, like, you know,

00:29:59.470 –> 00:30:01.849
I definitely related it to it more from the hero

00:30:01.849 –> 00:30:04.490
heroism aspect. But like, really, when you think

00:30:04.490 –> 00:30:08.920
about it, I mean, it like. than the first episode,

00:30:09.299 –> 00:30:11.779
they literally kill the whole planet. You know,

00:30:11.920 –> 00:30:13.799
that’s like that’s genocide on a massive scale.

00:30:13.859 –> 00:30:15.819
So like it really does seem like it’s kind of

00:30:15.819 –> 00:30:18.460
woven throughout the whole series. Yeah, absolutely.

00:30:18.720 –> 00:30:22.059
Star Wars is definitely a multi -genre built

00:30:22.059 –> 00:30:25.660
franchise. George has always been pretty open

00:30:25.660 –> 00:30:28.019
about that. And I think the biggest of the Saturday

00:30:28.019 –> 00:30:31.140
morning serials, Kurosawa films, stuff like that,

00:30:31.299 –> 00:30:34.319
westerns. But I think all the way through is

00:30:34.319 –> 00:30:37.279
horror as well. Again, I keep making jokes as

00:30:37.279 –> 00:30:39.480
a scared little kid, but at 7, seeing Return

00:30:39.480 –> 00:30:42.539
of the Jedi in the theater, the Rancor monster

00:30:42.539 –> 00:30:44.319
eating a Gamorrean guard and Luke fighting him,

00:30:44.500 –> 00:30:47.400
that kept me up for weeks. It wasn’t until I

00:30:47.400 –> 00:30:49.119
learned that it was a puppet that I was allowed

00:30:49.119 –> 00:30:52.539
myself to go back and see it. The Emperor has

00:30:52.539 –> 00:30:55.339
a… horror elements in him as well from both

00:30:55.339 –> 00:30:57.319
Return of the Jedi all the way up to one of my

00:30:57.319 –> 00:30:59.440
favorite horror sequences in Star Wars is the

00:30:59.440 –> 00:31:01.539
opening of Rise of Skywalker, which is pure horror

00:31:01.539 –> 00:31:04.180
designed to be so. So, yeah, I think it’s it’s

00:31:04.180 –> 00:31:06.799
all there. It’s all in interwoven in the DNA.

00:31:07.460 –> 00:31:09.839
What’s the Rise of Skywalker opening? I’ve forgotten

00:31:09.839 –> 00:31:11.140
that. Like, what is the horror of that? Like

00:31:11.140 –> 00:31:14.700
my brain is gone. Yeah, it begins with Kylo Ren

00:31:14.700 –> 00:31:21.180
going to Mustafar to track down a Jedi Wayfinder.

00:31:21.480 –> 00:31:25.839
as he’s trying to find Palpatine, the return,

00:31:26.039 –> 00:31:28.220
you know, the return of Palpatine, and it starts

00:31:28.220 –> 00:31:30.460
there. And then he travels to Exegol, which is

00:31:30.460 –> 00:31:33.660
literally just, whereas Mustafar is a hellish

00:31:33.660 –> 00:31:36.460
planet full of lava, Exegol is kind of the little

00:31:36.460 –> 00:31:39.660
the pit of, you know, despair, so to speak, and

00:31:39.660 –> 00:31:42.450
going into the depths of Hades. As he descends

00:31:42.450 –> 00:31:44.410
down into it, there’s this lightning strike.

00:31:44.470 –> 00:31:47.609
There’s this necromancy kind of a play. There’s

00:31:47.609 –> 00:31:50.349
Palpatine returning with bony fingers. And it’s

00:31:50.349 –> 00:31:52.349
all designed intentionally to be a little horror

00:31:52.349 –> 00:31:54.490
short at the beginning of the film. So you got

00:31:54.490 –> 00:31:56.609
clones. You got a lot of things like that. You

00:31:56.609 –> 00:31:58.170
threw a necromancy and I’m sold. I was like,

00:31:58.170 –> 00:31:59.589
I have to go watch that again. I don’t remember

00:31:59.589 –> 00:32:04.450
that part. Yeah. Ken, would you say that what

00:32:04.450 –> 00:32:07.789
you found to be the most horrific thing it was

00:32:07.789 –> 00:32:10.049
for you was return of the Jedi, the sequence

00:32:10.049 –> 00:32:13.259
you’re talking about? I think so, yeah. I think

00:32:13.259 –> 00:32:15.339
the opening of that film, when I say the opening

00:32:15.339 –> 00:32:17.039
of Return of the Jedi, it’s almost a short film

00:32:17.039 –> 00:32:18.599
in front of the rest of the film, which is the

00:32:18.599 –> 00:32:22.539
Jabba’s Palace sequence. Again, I’m a scaredy

00:32:22.539 –> 00:32:25.400
cat little kid, probably still am, but it is

00:32:25.400 –> 00:32:28.539
celebrating the monsters, it is celebrating the

00:32:28.539 –> 00:32:31.039
macabre, it is celebrating, you know, this slug

00:32:31.039 –> 00:32:34.519
-like… uh master above it all that’s sending

00:32:34.519 –> 00:32:36.940
people down to his monster and his menagerie

00:32:36.940 –> 00:32:39.440
of creatures to eat him and um and the rancor

00:32:39.440 –> 00:32:41.559
monster just you know again scared the scared

00:32:41.559 –> 00:32:44.420
the little poop out of this kid but also you

00:32:44.420 –> 00:32:47.869
know there’s a sequence of 3po uh an r2 being

00:32:47.869 –> 00:32:50.349
sent down the hallway and there’s arms and tentacles

00:32:50.349 –> 00:32:53.349
coming out you go into a droid uh torture chamber

00:32:53.349 –> 00:32:57.089
with uh ev 99 and uh there’s a droid being killed

00:32:57.089 –> 00:32:59.630
and electrocuted there’s a gonk droid whose feet’s

00:32:59.630 –> 00:33:02.450
being burned and it’s just that got me just as

00:33:02.450 –> 00:33:04.150
much as the rank or this entire sequence it’s

00:33:04.150 –> 00:33:07.509
just monsters and ghouls yeah i know you bring

00:33:07.509 –> 00:33:11.170
up a good point is it seems like star wars does

00:33:11.170 –> 00:33:14.259
kind of soft launch horror for kids in a lot

00:33:14.259 –> 00:33:16.559
of ways that you don’t necessarily think about,

00:33:16.599 –> 00:33:20.019
but if you dissect it, it sort of does. For myself,

00:33:20.140 –> 00:33:22.019
I was thinking about this. I was like, what was

00:33:22.019 –> 00:33:24.000
the most horrific thing I’ve seen in anything

00:33:24.000 –> 00:33:27.880
Star Wars? And I came to the Ewok adventure where

00:33:27.880 –> 00:33:31.039
the kid falls in the water and the surface becomes

00:33:31.039 –> 00:33:34.160
a barrier because he’s going to drown, right?

00:33:34.160 –> 00:33:35.980
And then the Ewoks are all trying to figure it

00:33:35.980 –> 00:33:37.819
out until they have the magic stick. But I was

00:33:37.819 –> 00:33:40.079
like, that stuck with me. That’s the only thing

00:33:40.079 –> 00:33:44.029
I can remember from that. Yeah, the Ewok movies,

00:33:44.390 –> 00:33:47.329
Battle for Endor, Caravan of Courage, the first

00:33:47.329 –> 00:33:50.109
one has the Gorax, which is a supersized kind

00:33:50.109 –> 00:33:51.930
of monster that’s on the planet. That terrified

00:33:51.930 –> 00:33:54.049
me as well. Giant monsters is apparently what

00:33:54.049 –> 00:33:55.930
got me as a kid. Right. Of course, Gorax and

00:33:55.930 –> 00:33:58.529
more. Yeah. You know, it’s interesting. And I

00:33:58.529 –> 00:33:59.970
think maybe we’re kind of like touching on this

00:33:59.970 –> 00:34:01.650
from a bunch of different angles is that there’s

00:34:01.650 –> 00:34:06.450
a way in which at least definitely in the more

00:34:06.450 –> 00:34:08.869
the films and cartoons like the more visual.

00:34:09.779 –> 00:34:13.079
parts of of the franchise where they balance

00:34:13.079 –> 00:34:15.820
all these horror elements, but it’s still family

00:34:15.820 –> 00:34:18.840
friendly. And I wonder, like, do you think that’s

00:34:18.840 –> 00:34:21.659
like something that George Lucas introduced,

00:34:21.659 –> 00:34:24.840
you know, and that that’s kind of part of the

00:34:24.840 –> 00:34:28.179
DNA of the franchise? Or is it like, what’s your

00:34:28.179 –> 00:34:30.739
take on that? And like, why is it that we can

00:34:30.739 –> 00:34:32.960
all be watching these like horror movies, then

00:34:32.960 –> 00:34:34.820
not even realize that they’re horror movies,

00:34:34.820 –> 00:34:38.179
you know? Yeah, yeah, George is famously on record

00:34:38.179 –> 00:34:39.880
as saying Star Wars is for 12 year olds that

00:34:39.880 –> 00:34:43.159
often gets pulled in different directions by

00:34:43.159 –> 00:34:44.800
people trying to make different kind of cases

00:34:44.800 –> 00:34:47.179
for or against Star Wars. But he’s always saying

00:34:47.179 –> 00:34:49.159
that’s it’s for 12 year olds, meaning you’re

00:34:49.159 –> 00:34:50.780
on the cusp of adulthood. And I want to give

00:34:50.780 –> 00:34:53.059
you morality tales to take you out. But I think

00:34:53.059 –> 00:34:56.320
along the way, he stops off on many genres and

00:34:56.320 –> 00:34:58.000
plays with them, not just him, obviously, the

00:34:58.000 –> 00:34:59.780
people that continue to make them or even the

00:34:59.780 –> 00:35:02.340
people around him back in the 80s and the prequel.

00:35:02.360 –> 00:35:05.030
So I think absolutely I think it’s a I don’t

00:35:05.030 –> 00:35:06.690
want to say it’s an introduction to film, but

00:35:06.690 –> 00:35:09.769
it’s an introduction to narrative and the importance

00:35:09.769 –> 00:35:13.230
of art and narrative storytelling, which is why

00:35:13.230 –> 00:35:15.389
Lucas is opening up a museum that’s not a Star

00:35:15.389 –> 00:35:17.610
Wars museum. It is a museum of narrative art.

00:35:17.670 –> 00:35:19.849
He’s very interested in that. And I think if

00:35:19.849 –> 00:35:22.170
he could introduce that to kids at a young age,

00:35:22.590 –> 00:35:25.610
that people would say, hey, I liked horror because

00:35:25.610 –> 00:35:27.610
of this, or I like Westerns because of this,

00:35:27.690 –> 00:35:29.730
I think he’d be proud in that. And again, there’s

00:35:29.730 –> 00:35:32.349
so many lessons in everything to be. found in

00:35:32.349 –> 00:35:35.230
the monsters and the ghouls and the sarlacc pit

00:35:35.230 –> 00:35:36.789
in the middle of the dunes. And you get tossed

00:35:36.789 –> 00:35:39.070
into it. I think I think absolutely. He’s a film

00:35:39.070 –> 00:35:42.590
fan first. Right. Right. And does that hold true

00:35:42.590 –> 00:35:46.409
across the different, I guess, formats like I

00:35:46.409 –> 00:35:48.329
read a few of the novels when I was younger.

00:35:48.570 –> 00:35:51.889
I don’t remember much about them. But like, are

00:35:51.889 –> 00:35:55.010
the novels similarly kind of geared towards?

00:35:55.309 –> 00:35:57.989
you know, a younger audience on that verge of

00:35:57.989 –> 00:36:00.530
becoming an adult? Or are they full on adult

00:36:00.530 –> 00:36:02.989
or like young adult? Like, how does that work?

00:36:03.329 –> 00:36:05.949
There’s definitely there’s a lot of especially

00:36:05.949 –> 00:36:07.889
in the publishing side. There’s a lot of there’s

00:36:07.889 –> 00:36:09.650
middle grade. There’s YA, the young adult stuff.

00:36:09.750 –> 00:36:11.469
And some of the best Star Wars books even in

00:36:11.469 –> 00:36:13.730
this modern era are considered YA. And I always

00:36:13.730 –> 00:36:15.769
tell people don’t overlook it because you think

00:36:15.769 –> 00:36:18.599
you’re not 13 anymore. I also think so many people

00:36:18.599 –> 00:36:20.960
miss the lessons, whether it’s in the 80s, 90s

00:36:20.960 –> 00:36:23.119
or beyond, that we’re all still 12 year olds

00:36:23.119 –> 00:36:24.760
learning how to be adults. And maybe there’s

00:36:24.760 –> 00:36:26.860
some lessons for us to be found in there. But

00:36:26.860 –> 00:36:28.340
on the publishing side, yeah, they lean into

00:36:28.340 –> 00:36:31.460
it more in legends, which I’m not as much of

00:36:31.460 –> 00:36:33.400
an expert as legends as others are, which is

00:36:33.400 –> 00:36:36.699
the books and comics and stuff prior to April

00:36:36.699 –> 00:36:39.559
2014, which are now not canon, they’re legends,

00:36:39.719 –> 00:36:42.320
but there’s Death Troopers, Red Harvest, which

00:36:42.320 –> 00:36:44.380
were straight up. Horror stories. We got some

00:36:44.380 –> 00:36:47.519
coming in the modern age. Kirsten White’s got

00:36:47.519 –> 00:36:49.800
a book coming out. I wrote it down here because

00:36:49.800 –> 00:36:51.579
I was going to hiding from the darker Star Wars

00:36:51.579 –> 00:36:53.460
horror story, which is a middle grade reader

00:36:53.460 –> 00:36:56.519
in the comics in 2017. Jason Aaron and Karen

00:36:56.519 –> 00:36:59.340
Gillan. Karen Gillan wrote The Screaming Citadel,

00:36:59.579 –> 00:37:02.239
which was a five issue crossover with the main

00:37:02.239 –> 00:37:04.579
Star Wars line at the time that is. Pure horror

00:37:04.579 –> 00:37:08.000
it is vampires. It is possession. It is a screaming

00:37:08.000 –> 00:37:11.539
citadel stuff and it’s a You know dripping with

00:37:11.539 –> 00:37:13.340
with horror themes all the way through itself.

00:37:13.820 –> 00:37:16.559
Yeah as far as the age I think it can vary depending

00:37:16.559 –> 00:37:18.099
on what they’re trying to get to in terms of

00:37:18.099 –> 00:37:21.000
just The marketing of it, but I think it’s all

00:37:21.000 –> 00:37:22.880
the through line is all there. It is a morality

00:37:22.880 –> 00:37:25.199
tale How you can have can use all the pieces

00:37:25.199 –> 00:37:27.500
to get that across? Right. And, you know, traditional

00:37:27.500 –> 00:37:30.539
fairy tales were essentially horror stories,

00:37:30.679 –> 00:37:33.639
right? Like, like there is horror and there needs

00:37:33.639 –> 00:37:37.139
to be in a morality tale because, you know, you

00:37:37.139 –> 00:37:40.920
have to be have moral dilemmas and, you know,

00:37:41.039 –> 00:37:42.699
the stakes have to be high and, you know, there

00:37:42.699 –> 00:37:45.400
has to be real consequences for actions and things.

00:37:45.659 –> 00:37:47.900
Yeah. Hansel and Gretel, Gretel still scares

00:37:47.900 –> 00:37:50.860
the crap out of me. There’s grim stuff. Yeah.

00:37:50.880 –> 00:37:53.170
All that. I mean, the Little Mermaid. Terrible

00:37:53.170 –> 00:37:55.010
horror story. They had those ones that came in

00:37:55.010 –> 00:37:56.630
that were doing the indie movies that were trying

00:37:56.630 –> 00:37:58.449
to do like the Little Mermaid Tale and like the

00:37:58.449 –> 00:38:00.409
Cinderella stuff that was more along the lines

00:38:00.409 –> 00:38:03.610
of like the horror stories So even fairy tales

00:38:03.610 –> 00:38:05.769
even the most fantasy stuff is rooted in evil

00:38:05.769 –> 00:38:09.949
and horror Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm Well, I yeah, I mean

00:38:09.949 –> 00:38:12.289
that’s an interesting point to happen I think

00:38:12.289 –> 00:38:15.570
like evil has to be scary right to drive the

00:38:15.570 –> 00:38:19.050
point home of why it’s such a threat totally

00:38:19.420 –> 00:38:21.380
I don’t know. There’s something about Tim Curry

00:38:21.380 –> 00:38:26.139
that was darkness and that just isn’t, it didn’t

00:38:26.139 –> 00:38:31.340
scare me. Well, with what’s interesting to me

00:38:31.340 –> 00:38:33.699
also about, you know, when I started researching

00:38:33.699 –> 00:38:37.539
for this episode is in really thinking about

00:38:37.539 –> 00:38:40.960
all the different types of kind of horror that

00:38:40.960 –> 00:38:43.199
are woven into Star Wars too, because it’s not

00:38:43.199 –> 00:38:45.699
just, you know, bad people per se, but there’s

00:38:45.699 –> 00:38:50.510
like kind of creature. Horror there’s like a

00:38:50.510 –> 00:38:53.829
cult or kind of in in some orders of the Jedi

00:38:53.829 –> 00:38:56.050
and things like that Right and like so it really

00:38:56.050 –> 00:38:58.090
kind of leans into these different sort of sub

00:38:58.090 –> 00:39:00.769
genres of horror as well. So that’s that’s pretty

00:39:00.769 –> 00:39:03.170
cool Yeah, absolutely. I think one of the best

00:39:03.170 –> 00:39:05.590
examples of that is the Clone Wars animated series

00:39:05.590 –> 00:39:09.929
from about 2008 to 2014 and it came back for

00:39:09.929 –> 00:39:12.889
season 7 whatever it is They they had a ton of

00:39:12.889 –> 00:39:14.389
fun and George was at the helm of that even though

00:39:14.389 –> 00:39:18.519
Dave Filoni is the man who gets Credit for driving

00:39:18.519 –> 00:39:20.500
that show and he was along with Henry Gilroy

00:39:20.500 –> 00:39:22.420
and other great writers and producers But George

00:39:22.420 –> 00:39:24.019
was behind it all and they really leaned to what

00:39:24.019 –> 00:39:26.539
we were talking earlier So I like that you bring

00:39:26.539 –> 00:39:28.360
up there’s other genres the monster side of it

00:39:28.360 –> 00:39:31.820
There is the Clone Wars arc season two round

00:39:31.820 –> 00:39:33.760
episode eight is the brain invaders one they’re

00:39:33.760 –> 00:39:37.739
on Geonosis and there’s actual clones with worms

00:39:37.739 –> 00:39:40.139
going into their brains and it’s it’s horrific

00:39:40.139 –> 00:39:44.119
and then later on in that season They lean completely

00:39:44.119 –> 00:39:46.420
into monster movie with Godzilla with this character

00:39:46.420 –> 00:39:48.179
called the Zillow Beast, which is this giant

00:39:48.179 –> 00:39:51.099
Godzilla like creature that in the Clone Wars,

00:39:51.340 –> 00:39:54.559
the Jedi and the Republican separatists unearth

00:39:54.559 –> 00:39:57.599
it in the Battle of Malastar and it’s taken back.

00:39:57.780 –> 00:40:01.400
Palpatine wants to study it and it breaks free

00:40:01.400 –> 00:40:05.260
and terrorizes Coruscant. And there’s this whole

00:40:05.260 –> 00:40:07.900
large, you know, episode long sequence of this

00:40:07.900 –> 00:40:10.949
monster that they unearth. It wasn’t bothering

00:40:10.949 –> 00:40:14.329
anybody. War unearthed this monster destroyed

00:40:14.329 –> 00:40:16.670
the citizens and the planet course and a little

00:40:16.670 –> 00:40:18.269
or this parts of course a little bit and the

00:40:18.269 –> 00:40:21.150
creature comes back in the bad batch series cloned

00:40:21.150 –> 00:40:23.289
and dangerous. So yeah, I love when they leaned

00:40:23.289 –> 00:40:25.829
lean into that unapologetically just straightforward

00:40:25.829 –> 00:40:29.159
brain invaders is just straight. 1950 sci -fi

00:40:29.159 –> 00:40:31.739
with worms going into brains. It’s pretty fantastic.

00:40:31.800 –> 00:40:33.099
I want to know more about that. That reminds

00:40:33.099 –> 00:40:35.420
me of evasion of the body snatchers. So I want

00:40:35.420 –> 00:40:37.119
to is that something that I could like read or

00:40:37.119 –> 00:40:38.880
watch separately without knowing anything else

00:40:38.880 –> 00:40:41.800
about this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Clone Wars

00:40:41.800 –> 00:40:43.559
season two Brain Invaders. Yeah, I think I think

00:40:43.559 –> 00:40:46.800
it’s a two episode arc and it’s it stands apart

00:40:46.800 –> 00:40:49.079
from a lot of the other episodes around it. It’s

00:40:49.079 –> 00:40:52.380
just straight up straight up. We’re doing whore.

00:40:52.460 –> 00:40:54.519
We’re doing whore. There’s a brain. There’s a

00:40:54.519 –> 00:40:57.280
worm going into brains. Exactly. Love it. OK,

00:40:57.280 –> 00:41:03.519
cool. Yeah. Is there a particular series like

00:41:03.519 –> 00:41:07.460
comic book series, miniseries, whatever, or books

00:41:07.460 –> 00:41:10.599
or whatever that are leans the most horror that

00:41:10.599 –> 00:41:14.559
that you’re like for a fan of horror first that

00:41:14.559 –> 00:41:17.159
comes to Star Wars second or is just getting

00:41:17.159 –> 00:41:18.840
to know Star Wars. What would you recommend that

00:41:18.840 –> 00:41:21.099
they start if they want that part of it? Yes,

00:41:21.179 –> 00:41:24.980
starting in 2018 IDW put out a series of stories

00:41:24.980 –> 00:41:27.059
and anthologies. I think they’re about five issues

00:41:27.059 –> 00:41:29.440
and one is a one shot by Kevin Scott, one of

00:41:29.440 –> 00:41:32.440
the great Star Wars writers, both in books and

00:41:32.440 –> 00:41:34.579
comics. And it starts with Tales from Vader’s

00:41:34.579 –> 00:41:37.760
Castle, Return to Vader’s Castle, Shadow of Vader’s

00:41:37.760 –> 00:41:40.380
Castle, Ghost of Vader’s Castle. So Vader’s Castle

00:41:40.380 –> 00:41:42.400
or Fortress Vader, which we first see in Rogue

00:41:42.400 –> 00:41:45.969
One, but had been kind of in Star Wars lore as

00:41:45.969 –> 00:41:49.289
something that or something that Ralph McCrory

00:41:49.289 –> 00:41:51.309
designed in the 80s and people kind of knew about

00:41:51.309 –> 00:41:54.190
some of the stuff and they bring it to Canon

00:41:54.190 –> 00:41:57.050
in Rogue One, Horch’s Vader built on Mustafar

00:41:57.050 –> 00:42:00.389
overlooking the spot in which Anakin had been

00:42:00.389 –> 00:42:02.730
burned and became Darth Vader in a way, though

00:42:02.730 –> 00:42:04.530
he was actually technically Darth Vader by that

00:42:04.530 –> 00:42:07.170
point. So that’s serious. So Kevin Scott leans

00:42:07.170 –> 00:42:10.590
into that and takes you all through its anthology

00:42:10.590 –> 00:42:14.110
stuff. It’s all. It’s straight up horror. And

00:42:14.110 –> 00:42:17.949
then there’s George Mann wrote two collections

00:42:17.949 –> 00:42:20.670
of books, Star Wars Dark Tales and Star Wars

00:42:20.670 –> 00:42:24.369
Myths and Fables, all direct horror. So completely

00:42:24.369 –> 00:42:26.389
build as it, there’s ghost stories, there’s all

00:42:26.389 –> 00:42:28.130
these kinds of things in it. It’s fun stuff.

00:42:30.840 –> 00:42:33.880
If they were to make a Star Wars horror movie,

00:42:34.119 –> 00:42:35.460
would it do you think it would be pulled from

00:42:35.460 –> 00:42:37.920
that? Or is it from all your knowledge of Star

00:42:37.920 –> 00:42:39.639
Wars? What do you think would be the make the

00:42:39.639 –> 00:42:42.639
most sense? I think there’s long been rumors

00:42:42.639 –> 00:42:46.300
that they are, you know, developing a Star Wars

00:42:46.300 –> 00:42:48.840
or project, probably a TV series. Tony Gilroy

00:42:48.840 –> 00:42:52.159
kind of let that out January twenty twenty six.

00:42:52.639 –> 00:42:56.719
And so it’s possible. I think it would be not

00:42:56.719 –> 00:42:59.079
taken from those stories. It would probably be

00:42:59.079 –> 00:43:02.139
something. on its own. I don’t know how if it’s

00:43:02.139 –> 00:43:04.139
direct. I’m curious to see how direct they do

00:43:04.139 –> 00:43:07.079
it. But I think absolutely there’s examples of

00:43:07.079 –> 00:43:08.940
Mall Shadow Lord, which is animated series that

00:43:08.940 –> 00:43:11.480
just wrapped last week that was new following

00:43:11.480 –> 00:43:15.880
Mall post fall. The Republic. It has four elements

00:43:15.880 –> 00:43:17.300
all the way through it. So if you could just

00:43:17.300 –> 00:43:19.659
expand upon that, I think that’s probably the

00:43:19.659 –> 00:43:21.980
direction will go if it’s a live action animated

00:43:21.980 –> 00:43:25.360
series or live action TV series. Wasn’t there

00:43:25.360 –> 00:43:29.010
some. Project I wouldn’t it was it the solo film

00:43:29.010 –> 00:43:32.869
that died But I think I read an article at some

00:43:32.869 –> 00:43:37.170
point where there was a Star Wars film that Was

00:43:37.170 –> 00:43:39.570
being developed and then they cancelled it But

00:43:39.570 –> 00:43:41.869
the director of that who was a prominent director

00:43:41.869 –> 00:43:44.230
was gonna take it more in the horror direction

00:43:44.230 –> 00:43:50.210
It’s possible you are thinking of gamma del Toro

00:43:50.210 –> 00:43:52.329
That might be it. Yeah had pitched something

00:43:52.329 –> 00:43:56.280
throughout the years related to maybe to Jabba.

00:43:56.539 –> 00:43:59.539
There was the rise of Jabba or there was kind

00:43:59.539 –> 00:44:02.460
of he wasn’t taken from the old tales of Jabba’s

00:44:02.460 –> 00:44:03.800
palace book, but it might have been something

00:44:03.800 –> 00:44:06.440
like that. And I think just and he and he had

00:44:06.440 –> 00:44:08.380
said it directly a few times. I even saw him

00:44:08.380 –> 00:44:10.199
say it to us at Collider. He was being interviewed

00:44:10.199 –> 00:44:11.920
and off camera was just like, yeah, I pitched

00:44:11.920 –> 00:44:15.360
this thing to Lucasfilm and that was like 2017

00:44:15.360 –> 00:44:17.880
range. But because of who he is, I think without

00:44:17.880 –> 00:44:19.719
a doubt, I think the thought would be like that

00:44:19.719 –> 00:44:23.309
would have been for film. Yeah. I mean, he makes

00:44:23.309 –> 00:44:26.670
the most sense because he walks that line of

00:44:26.670 –> 00:44:30.690
the like fable, family friendly horror, you know,

00:44:30.750 –> 00:44:32.789
the way in his work. So that makes sense. Yeah.

00:44:32.789 –> 00:44:35.110
He’s everything that the Brothers Grimm wanted

00:44:35.110 –> 00:44:38.989
in a storyteller. Yeah. And he’s really good

00:44:38.989 –> 00:44:42.489
with creatures as we all know. Yeah. Yeah. I

00:44:42.489 –> 00:44:44.510
would watch that film for sure. Yeah, but Doug

00:44:44.510 –> 00:44:46.730
Jones, like Doug Jones is like the master of

00:44:46.730 –> 00:44:48.510
like, you know, contortionist and creatures and

00:44:48.510 –> 00:44:51.230
stuff. Has Doug Jones done anything in Star Wars

00:44:51.230 –> 00:44:54.619
Ken Dino? Not to my knowledge, unless it’s something

00:44:54.619 –> 00:44:57.039
early and uncredited that I’m unaware of. But,

00:44:57.219 –> 00:44:59.019
yeah, I would love him in Star Wars doing his

00:44:59.019 –> 00:45:02.139
magic. He’s great. For you, what’s your favorite

00:45:02.139 –> 00:45:06.119
horror, like creature element, like character,

00:45:06.400 –> 00:45:10.300
like the darkest thing that grabs you? To me,

00:45:10.320 –> 00:45:13.420
it’s pretty simple. It’s Darth Vader. It is the

00:45:13.420 –> 00:45:16.159
tale of Anakin Skywalker. It’s absolute pure

00:45:16.159 –> 00:45:19.849
horror. How you can… slip into the dark side

00:45:19.849 –> 00:45:24.630
by believing their lies. And thinking you’re

00:45:24.630 –> 00:45:26.570
making this out of the freedom of your own choice

00:45:26.570 –> 00:45:28.329
when you really you’re slipping into a prison.

00:45:28.670 –> 00:45:31.329
He is literally trapped in an iron lung the rest

00:45:31.329 –> 00:45:34.070
of his life because of the deal he tried to make

00:45:34.070 –> 00:45:36.690
with the devil. And that’s the tragedy of it.

00:45:36.929 –> 00:45:39.590
The great is the great shot in Revenge of the

00:45:39.590 –> 00:45:41.710
Sith of the mass coming down onto its face. It’s

00:45:41.710 –> 00:45:44.750
one of the great shots in Star Wars and, you

00:45:44.750 –> 00:45:47.429
know, in Christiansen’s eyes go up. It’s the

00:45:47.429 –> 00:45:50.000
last time he’ll See out without his, you know,

00:45:50.000 –> 00:45:52.079
he takes a mask off, but it’s the last time before

00:45:52.079 –> 00:45:54.260
the mask comes on forever. It’s a great shot.

00:45:54.500 –> 00:45:56.800
And, you know, he literally goes into hell and

00:45:56.800 –> 00:45:59.739
Lucifer to a lava planet. But then you take that

00:45:59.739 –> 00:46:04.760
out. And Vader is a monster. And two of the greatest

00:46:04.760 –> 00:46:07.659
examples, they just had one in Mall Shadowlord,

00:46:07.699 –> 00:46:10.739
the animated series. I guess it’s a big spoiler.

00:46:10.760 –> 00:46:14.000
I apologize. But he’s there and there’s no dialogue.

00:46:14.039 –> 00:46:16.869
He is literally a. unrelenting monster. And I

00:46:16.869 –> 00:46:18.510
think the most famous one that people celebrate

00:46:18.510 –> 00:46:22.090
is Rogue One, the hallway scene in 2016. That

00:46:22.090 –> 00:46:24.829
is a horror sequence. That is the monster at

00:46:24.829 –> 00:46:26.750
the end of the hallway that is an unrelenting

00:46:26.750 –> 00:46:28.909
beast that cannot be stopped and you must get

00:46:28.909 –> 00:46:31.329
past it to literally save the galaxy, get the

00:46:31.329 –> 00:46:34.110
plans out. And it’s just also because I think

00:46:34.110 –> 00:46:36.730
horror teaches lessons, a lesson that I constantly

00:46:36.730 –> 00:46:40.210
say over and over again, Vader is a great character

00:46:40.210 –> 00:46:42.289
and worshiped in the fandom in some weird ways.

00:46:42.309 –> 00:46:44.599
Sometimes a lot of people don’t get the point.

00:46:44.739 –> 00:46:46.219
And George has even kind of come out and said

00:46:46.219 –> 00:46:48.440
that. In fact, he changed a lot of episodes two

00:46:48.440 –> 00:46:50.320
and three for maybe his original plans to be

00:46:50.320 –> 00:46:52.760
like, I understood a lot of you didn’t get the

00:46:52.760 –> 00:46:54.440
point. That’s why I started with him as a nine

00:46:54.440 –> 00:46:56.519
year old. You all worshiped him from the original

00:46:56.519 –> 00:46:59.320
trilogy. Vader is the most powerful monster in

00:46:59.320 –> 00:47:02.300
the land. And there’s so many times where he

00:47:02.300 –> 00:47:05.380
stomps down the hallway, an unstoppable beast,

00:47:05.440 –> 00:47:07.699
but he never gets what he wants. If you track

00:47:07.699 –> 00:47:10.340
it all the way through the trilogy, to the trilogies

00:47:10.340 –> 00:47:13.039
and the standalone stories, animated series.

00:47:13.260 –> 00:47:17.340
There’s a ton of shots of Vader marching in,

00:47:17.960 –> 00:47:20.780
he frightens everyone around him and kills people,

00:47:20.980 –> 00:47:23.619
destroys things, never gets the things he wants.

00:47:23.800 –> 00:47:25.480
And that, I think, is the big lesson of him.

00:47:25.719 –> 00:47:29.139
He sold his soul to never find peace and to never

00:47:29.139 –> 00:47:31.699
actually obtain the things he wants. And he’s

00:47:31.699 –> 00:47:34.530
in constant conflict with himself. So it’s cool,

00:47:34.690 –> 00:47:37.750
it’s badass, it’s Vader down the hallway. But

00:47:37.750 –> 00:47:41.030
it’s a big, powerful lesson told through this

00:47:41.030 –> 00:47:43.329
monster, this four monster that comes out of

00:47:43.329 –> 00:47:46.250
everyone. He’s like a walking hack and slash

00:47:46.250 –> 00:47:49.789
character. That’s all he does. He just kills.

00:47:50.070 –> 00:47:51.809
It’s a lot like Jason, really, if you think about

00:47:51.809 –> 00:47:54.750
it. Yeah, someone had called the Rogue One scene

00:47:54.750 –> 00:47:57.650
like Darth Vader’s slasher moment that’s out

00:47:57.650 –> 00:48:00.690
of a slasher film. And I thought that was a very

00:48:00.690 –> 00:48:03.960
stute observation. It’s interesting looking at

00:48:03.960 –> 00:48:06.420
Darth Vader as a little kid. I was one of those

00:48:06.420 –> 00:48:09.619
people who worshiped him. I told Taffeta and

00:48:09.619 –> 00:48:11.880
Christopher is when I saw Return of the Jedi

00:48:11.880 –> 00:48:13.400
in the theater and I had to be carried out because

00:48:13.400 –> 00:48:18.960
I cried when he died. But I look at like the

00:48:18.960 –> 00:48:21.780
impact of that is they made bad guys just look

00:48:21.780 –> 00:48:25.119
cool. Like that goes through G .I. Joe, Cobra

00:48:25.119 –> 00:48:27.219
Commander, Skeletor, you name it. Like all the

00:48:27.219 –> 00:48:30.880
bad guys look way cooler than the heroes. This

00:48:30.880 –> 00:48:33.179
is a hundred percent. This comes up a lot on

00:48:33.179 –> 00:48:36.420
on on our shows and just in life. The bad guys

00:48:36.420 –> 00:48:39.079
have the cooler toys. I collected mostly Cobra.

00:48:39.900 –> 00:48:42.199
I have to admit, part of my sexual awakening

00:48:42.199 –> 00:48:45.340
might have been the Baroness, which is the female

00:48:45.340 –> 00:48:48.659
agent. It’s like if you come to my house in little

00:48:48.659 –> 00:48:50.619
corners, I’m staring at a Baroness figure. I

00:48:50.619 –> 00:48:52.840
have a Baroness pipe like, yeah, absolutely.

00:48:53.000 –> 00:48:55.900
And for a long time, I too collected more imperial

00:48:55.900 –> 00:48:57.840
stuff. I actually had a baseball cap that has

00:48:57.840 –> 00:49:00.949
the imperial cog on it. And I wore it for many

00:49:00.949 –> 00:49:02.769
years, wore it on stage as a comic, wore it to

00:49:02.769 –> 00:49:05.389
conventions. And then the world changed around

00:49:05.389 –> 00:49:07.030
it. We don’t need to go too much in the real

00:49:07.030 –> 00:49:09.750
world. And that symbol of the empire started

00:49:09.750 –> 00:49:12.389
to represent something a lot different and more

00:49:12.389 –> 00:49:14.690
real for all of us. And I was in a coffee shop

00:49:14.690 –> 00:49:18.969
and someone turned to me and just looked up at

00:49:18.969 –> 00:49:21.150
my hat and just kind of rolled my eyes and rolled

00:49:21.150 –> 00:49:23.619
her eyes and went. And that’s the moment I realized,

00:49:23.820 –> 00:49:27.000
oh, so I got a rebel insignia hat now because

00:49:27.000 –> 00:49:29.440
it is exactly what you say. Now I have on my

00:49:29.440 –> 00:49:31.500
wall here. Any time they released a Vader figure,

00:49:31.619 –> 00:49:34.119
I grabbed it. Yeah. The dark side, you know,

00:49:34.199 –> 00:49:37.179
that red and black aesthetic is it’s wonderful.

00:49:37.940 –> 00:49:41.760
Well, you know, it’s a real credit to the production

00:49:41.760 –> 00:49:46.250
designers. Right. I mean, those. silhouettes

00:49:46.250 –> 00:49:49.170
and the sort of the way they designed the characters

00:49:49.170 –> 00:49:52.309
to look hold up in a way that a lot of times

00:49:52.309 –> 00:49:55.170
other films from the era, the bad guys didn’t.

00:49:55.489 –> 00:49:58.329
And like, you know, and I mean, really, you know,

00:49:58.349 –> 00:50:01.429
there’s a lot of this is a new information, but,

00:50:01.550 –> 00:50:03.909
you know, they based a lot of that right on sort

00:50:03.909 –> 00:50:07.230
of the Nazi outfits and things like that. So

00:50:07.230 –> 00:50:09.429
I guess we really we got to give credit to the

00:50:09.429 –> 00:50:13.230
Nazis. But well, I would I would piggyback and

00:50:13.230 –> 00:50:16.449
I would also say It’s the voice to like James

00:50:16.449 –> 00:50:19.130
Earl Jones, or if you’re talking about Cobra

00:50:19.130 –> 00:50:21.610
Cobra Commander’s voice, also Starscream, like

00:50:21.610 –> 00:50:25.090
they sounded fucking cool. James Earl Jones sounded

00:50:25.090 –> 00:50:29.150
so menacing with that deep voice. It was so perfect

00:50:29.150 –> 00:50:32.409
for later. And the confidence, right? Like particularly

00:50:32.409 –> 00:50:35.690
in the US, we really value confidence, probably

00:50:35.690 –> 00:50:39.309
to a fault. And, you know, the rebel alliance,

00:50:39.449 –> 00:50:41.719
they’re always like. It looks like they’re, you

00:50:41.719 –> 00:50:44.500
know, glued together at duct tape and, you know,

00:50:44.619 –> 00:50:47.400
Elmer’s glue or whatever. And like, and meanwhile,

00:50:48.280 –> 00:50:50.400
the Imperium has it all together and they’re,

00:50:50.400 –> 00:50:52.239
you know, it’s like everything slick and like

00:50:52.239 –> 00:50:55.159
a well -oiled machine. You make me think of Return

00:50:55.159 –> 00:50:57.500
of the Jedi when, you know, Luke Skywalker says

00:50:57.500 –> 00:50:59.219
to the Emperor, you know, your overconfidence

00:50:59.219 –> 00:51:01.340
is your weakness. You know, he shoots back your

00:51:01.340 –> 00:51:03.960
faith and your friends is yours. But yes, that’s

00:51:03.960 –> 00:51:08.760
the cornerstone of the Empire. Right. Plus also

00:51:09.289 –> 00:51:13.760
Emperor Palpatine’s like quarters. So dope. Yeah,

00:51:14.059 –> 00:51:16.519
best view, best view ever. Like I would I would

00:51:16.519 –> 00:51:18.420
succumb to that just for the view alone, because

00:51:18.420 –> 00:51:20.780
I like really good views and I like shiny things

00:51:20.780 –> 00:51:22.500
and sparkly lights. And he’s got it. And I’d

00:51:22.500 –> 00:51:24.559
be like, all right, here’s my soul. I got a view

00:51:24.559 –> 00:51:27.940
in the electricity that comes out of his hands

00:51:27.940 –> 00:51:29.800
and stuff. That’s so fucking cool. He’s like

00:51:29.800 –> 00:51:32.019
a sorcerer. You know, it’s kind of like a wizard.

00:51:32.280 –> 00:51:35.260
He’s a wizard with a great pad. I mean, done,

00:51:35.480 –> 00:51:37.280
done. Totally come to the dark side. We have

00:51:37.280 –> 00:51:40.039
views. Yes. Yes. It’s very lovecraftian in a

00:51:40.039 –> 00:51:43.670
way, too. Was was the emperor based on any one

00:51:43.670 –> 00:51:48.349
in history or? Yeah. Yeah. Richard Milhouse Nixon.

00:51:49.590 –> 00:51:53.110
Really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

00:51:54.010 –> 00:51:56.329
That is that there’s probably obviously as it

00:51:56.329 –> 00:51:59.630
appears on screen and how Ian McDermott plays

00:51:59.630 –> 00:52:01.610
him wonderfully. I think there’s a lot of other

00:52:01.610 –> 00:52:03.409
influences in the look and everything that we’re

00:52:03.409 –> 00:52:05.869
talking about. But 100 percent. That’s what what

00:52:05.869 –> 00:52:08.750
George in the 70s said. And when he brought him

00:52:08.750 –> 00:52:11.449
into play an empire. He was always present. If

00:52:11.449 –> 00:52:13.969
you read the opening of the New Hope Star Wars

00:52:13.969 –> 00:52:17.849
novelization, credit to George Lucas, but goes

00:52:17.849 –> 00:52:20.469
written by Alan Dean Foster. There is a prologue

00:52:20.469 –> 00:52:25.449
that is all about Palpatine taking power. He’s

00:52:25.449 –> 00:52:27.050
not Darth Sidious. He’s not Sith. We didn’t know

00:52:27.050 –> 00:52:28.289
any of that there. George didn’t really know

00:52:28.289 –> 00:52:31.070
that was the case. But it is literally he held

00:52:31.070 –> 00:52:33.190
onto his power and surrounded himself with yes

00:52:33.190 –> 00:52:36.309
men. And it’s this fantastic political tale.

00:52:36.389 –> 00:52:39.619
It’s the first thing ever released. was star

00:52:39.619 –> 00:52:42.320
wars that came out before the move and it’s and

00:52:42.320 –> 00:52:45.320
it’s telling his tale so yeah george always said

00:52:45.320 –> 00:52:48.239
that was his story was was what if his fear was

00:52:48.239 –> 00:52:51.639
what if nixon was able to get a third term when

00:52:51.639 –> 00:52:53.940
he started wow he had no idea donald trump was

00:52:53.940 –> 00:52:57.159
coming i think he might have had an idea that

00:52:57.159 –> 00:52:59.780
in general someone might have been coming all

00:52:59.780 –> 00:53:03.000
right fair play fair play you know what’s interesting

00:53:03.000 –> 00:53:05.780
is that you know darth vader has this redemption

00:53:05.780 –> 00:53:08.980
arc yeah and you don’t You know, in horror films,

00:53:08.980 –> 00:53:11.659
you don’t see that with the like the bad guy.

00:53:11.900 –> 00:53:14.260
So that’s that’s sort of an interesting contradiction

00:53:14.260 –> 00:53:16.579
there. Or I can give you an example where that

00:53:16.579 –> 00:53:20.539
changes. Oh, all right. Don’t breathe, too. Some

00:53:20.539 –> 00:53:22.659
people would say that’s irresponsible, but I

00:53:22.659 –> 00:53:25.260
found it pretty fascinating because then if you

00:53:25.260 –> 00:53:27.320
see those movies, you’ll you’ll understand what

00:53:27.320 –> 00:53:30.000
I mean. Yeah. So sometimes you do. But yeah,

00:53:30.000 –> 00:53:32.619
it’s usually evil for the sake of, you know.

00:53:32.619 –> 00:53:36.059
Yeah. Yes. I wonder, does that take the edge

00:53:36.059 –> 00:53:40.840
off a bit? of the horror aspect or I mean, I

00:53:40.840 –> 00:53:42.460
think it’s really just good storytelling because

00:53:42.460 –> 00:53:46.000
it kind of complexifies the character. But it

00:53:46.000 –> 00:53:52.739
kind of gives him. More of a central. He’s no

00:53:52.739 –> 00:53:55.619
longer just a foil, right? He’s kind of like.

00:53:55.940 –> 00:54:00.179
And more what’s we’re looking for. A protagonist

00:54:00.179 –> 00:54:05.079
kind of. Part piece of him, too. I would say

00:54:05.079 –> 00:54:07.519
it shows, I think there’s a lesson to it. It’s

00:54:07.519 –> 00:54:11.480
like you can be corrupted and bad and then you

00:54:11.480 –> 00:54:15.320
can still be good after that. You can come back

00:54:15.320 –> 00:54:18.559
from it. I think that might be what he was attempting

00:54:18.559 –> 00:54:21.579
maybe, but it’s also complicated because these

00:54:21.579 –> 00:54:26.199
kids are, you know, Luke and whatnot, right?

00:54:26.360 –> 00:54:28.300
Yeah. No, I think you’re absolutely right. I

00:54:28.300 –> 00:54:30.539
think they take the horror elements to change

00:54:30.539 –> 00:54:33.920
it up a little bit. that was the statement of,

00:54:34.119 –> 00:54:37.519
you know, in Star Wars, in particular, but I

00:54:37.519 –> 00:54:38.920
think just in life in general, there’s this kind

00:54:38.920 –> 00:54:40.800
of, to me, a confusion around the word destiny,

00:54:41.179 –> 00:54:43.820
that it’s preordained, and that that you’re chosen

00:54:43.820 –> 00:54:45.800
and you’re the chosen one. But really, to me,

00:54:46.000 –> 00:54:47.639
destiny is just what brings you to your next

00:54:47.639 –> 00:54:51.280
choice. And that’s your option to make. That’s

00:54:51.280 –> 00:54:53.360
your choice to make the next step. And I think

00:54:53.360 –> 00:54:57.780
that was the big lesson. And again, Vader stomps

00:54:57.780 –> 00:55:00.400
down hallways. to try to get what he wants, and

00:55:00.400 –> 00:55:02.380
he only gets what he wants, which is some sort

00:55:02.380 –> 00:55:04.820
of peace when he lays that all down. In the height

00:55:04.820 –> 00:55:07.880
of the 80s, with Rocky and Rambo and everything,

00:55:07.920 –> 00:55:10.059
not picking on Stallone, but with Rocky and Rambo

00:55:10.059 –> 00:55:14.059
and all that stuff going around, George Lucas

00:55:14.059 –> 00:55:17.619
decided that the hero of the story, Luke Skywalker,

00:55:17.760 –> 00:55:19.500
would throw his lightsaber down, throw down his

00:55:19.500 –> 00:55:21.840
weapon and give up his power. And that changes

00:55:21.840 –> 00:55:24.760
things that leads to the decision inside Anakin.

00:55:25.400 –> 00:55:27.300
for Anakin to emerge again. So I think you’re

00:55:27.300 –> 00:55:29.719
right. I think there’s great value in that. And

00:55:29.719 –> 00:55:31.639
that, you know, I went, I don’t know if I want

00:55:31.639 –> 00:55:34.980
Jason Voorhees to come around, but Vader can.

00:55:35.400 –> 00:55:38.019
And a lot of people, and this is maybe, we have

00:55:38.019 –> 00:55:39.579
so much fun. There’s so many Star Wars shows

00:55:39.579 –> 00:55:41.139
and podcasts, and I’m part of it. And I’ve been

00:55:41.139 –> 00:55:43.719
part of that for the last 12 years. There’s fun

00:55:43.719 –> 00:55:46.619
going into things on a micro level. But sometimes

00:55:46.619 –> 00:55:48.519
I think people forget that it is a morality tale.

00:55:48.539 –> 00:55:50.860
So you bring up a new hope, you know, the genocide

00:55:50.860 –> 00:55:53.340
of Alderaan. And people are still there’s some

00:55:53.340 –> 00:55:55.380
conversations. Well, Anakin should have been

00:55:55.380 –> 00:55:56.800
a redeemed because he was part of that. And it’s

00:55:56.800 –> 00:55:58.619
like, yeah, in the real world, we can have that

00:55:58.619 –> 00:56:01.420
discussion. But here it’s trying to show you’re

00:56:01.420 –> 00:56:03.780
as good as your next choice. You know, famously,

00:56:03.880 –> 00:56:09.539
the films were George based them a lot on Kurosawa’s

00:56:09.539 –> 00:56:12.300
work. And I’m curious if some of these horror

00:56:12.300 –> 00:56:16.019
aspects are carried over from that. Or did he

00:56:16.019 –> 00:56:19.159
bring in other influences as well? I don’t know

00:56:19.159 –> 00:56:22.239
on top of my head, I am. less a film father than

00:56:22.239 –> 00:56:25.880
others. I did go to film school for a little

00:56:25.880 –> 00:56:27.900
bit. Then I decided that I’d rather go on a radio

00:56:27.900 –> 00:56:31.659
and play 90s rock music for everybody. But yeah,

00:56:31.659 –> 00:56:35.039
I think that’s fair. He’s such a again. It sounds

00:56:35.039 –> 00:56:37.300
like I’m advertising for the Luke of Museum of

00:56:37.300 –> 00:56:38.840
Narrative Art, which is opening very soon here

00:56:38.840 –> 00:56:42.099
in L .A. Come on out. Get your ticket. He is

00:56:42.099 –> 00:56:44.400
a fan of this and a fan of taking this stuff

00:56:44.400 –> 00:56:48.159
serious. There’s going to be a tap that could

00:56:48.159 –> 00:56:49.619
probably tell us which ones, but there’s going

00:56:49.619 –> 00:56:52.480
to be. Comics on display there because George

00:56:52.480 –> 00:56:55.500
says believes in something that I’ve always echoed

00:56:55.500 –> 00:56:58.099
that that pop culture is culture That it should

00:56:58.099 –> 00:57:00.039
not be looked down upon that. The lessons are

00:57:00.039 –> 00:57:01.599
great The lessons are granted. So I think he

00:57:01.599 –> 00:57:03.719
pulls from all that stuff. Keir Saada absolutely

00:57:03.719 –> 00:57:05.800
Hidden Fortress and Seven Samurai and all the

00:57:05.800 –> 00:57:07.900
stuff obviously directly influenced it as did

00:57:07.900 –> 00:57:11.079
so many other things The nostalgia was baked

00:57:11.079 –> 00:57:13.900
into it Flash Gordon was what George wanted to

00:57:13.900 –> 00:57:15.219
do when he couldn’t get the rights or that couldn’t

00:57:15.219 –> 00:57:16.840
come together He says nuts to that. I’m gonna

00:57:16.840 –> 00:57:20.710
make my own and he pulls forward everything homage

00:57:20.710 –> 00:57:22.610
and an honor to the great art before it, but

00:57:22.610 –> 00:57:25.809
also as like, yeah, let me we need this now in

00:57:25.809 –> 00:57:28.469
the 70s. I’m going to give this to the younger

00:57:28.469 –> 00:57:32.530
generation. Stories based on films and books

00:57:32.530 –> 00:57:35.090
and horror genres that in Western genres and

00:57:35.090 –> 00:57:37.829
everything that people love. Right on. Yeah.

00:57:38.719 –> 00:57:40.559
It’s almost like if there was just more blood

00:57:40.559 –> 00:57:42.659
that was shown in a lot of these Star Wars movies

00:57:42.659 –> 00:57:44.480
that it would be considered more of a horror

00:57:44.480 –> 00:57:46.440
story I think that’s what it’s lacking is the

00:57:46.440 –> 00:57:49.179
lack of gore and the lack of Blood because all

00:57:49.179 –> 00:57:50.679
these terrible things are still happening. You’re

00:57:50.679 –> 00:57:54.130
still slaughtering Younglings adults monsters,

00:57:54.369 –> 00:57:56.909
but you never actually see like the aftermath

00:57:56.909 –> 00:57:59.190
of that part What’s there that actually adds

00:57:59.190 –> 00:58:01.010
to that horror element that I think a lot of

00:58:01.010 –> 00:58:03.269
the directors do when they do horror movies otherwise

00:58:03.269 –> 00:58:05.929
like it’s just you know, it’s I guess it’s cauterized

00:58:05.929 –> 00:58:08.070
because of the fucking what like a laser or something,

00:58:08.110 –> 00:58:11.230
but You know, I think if there was more blood

00:58:11.230 –> 00:58:14.909
I think it’d be a little different tale We don’t

00:58:14.909 –> 00:58:17.469
see it’s a very good point Luke stump Dewey.

00:58:17.469 –> 00:58:19.269
We don’t get like a close -up of a stump. It’s

00:58:19.269 –> 00:58:21.599
just kind of the sleeve It’s just, yeah, maybe

00:58:21.599 –> 00:58:23.139
smoking a little bit, but yeah, you don’t see

00:58:23.139 –> 00:58:26.420
it. Yeah. Right. But in some ways that’s more

00:58:26.420 –> 00:58:28.139
effective because it’s like your imagination

00:58:28.139 –> 00:58:31.480
is left to imagine what that is. Right. Yeah.

00:58:31.639 –> 00:58:35.260
Yeah. I agree. And I, you know, I’m trying to

00:58:35.260 –> 00:58:36.719
think I’m trying to quickly think of things I

00:58:36.719 –> 00:58:40.139
can tell you, Tefda, that would be full of Star

00:58:40.139 –> 00:58:42.079
Wars blood. But there is not a lot. You’re right.

00:58:42.300 –> 00:58:44.719
The only blood I can remember is when I think

00:58:44.719 –> 00:58:49.889
it was in the In on Tatooine in the bar scene

00:58:49.889 –> 00:58:51.730
when he cuts the arm off and you see the arm

00:58:51.730 –> 00:58:53.269
on the ground with the blood It’s the only time

00:58:53.269 –> 00:58:56.130
I yeah, it’s not even a lot, you know, and that’s

00:58:56.130 –> 00:59:00.710
kind of the last time yeah, it was George was

00:59:00.710 –> 00:59:03.469
like maybe we should do that go for well, I mean

00:59:03.469 –> 00:59:06.210
and George, you know famously went back and made

00:59:06.210 –> 00:59:10.789
a Guido shoot first so like he clearly was Not

00:59:10.789 –> 00:59:13.989
a fan of It’s interesting because there is so

00:59:13.989 –> 00:59:16.889
much horror, but then he dial it back in a way.

00:59:18.349 –> 00:59:21.110
Maybe he’s got he’s constantly, constantly tinkering

00:59:21.110 –> 00:59:23.610
that he changed the sound of the opening weekend

00:59:23.610 –> 00:59:27.070
of Star Wars. Why he was playing in man’s Chinese

00:59:27.070 –> 00:59:30.190
theater. He was in a in a booth around that time.

00:59:30.849 –> 00:59:32.849
He might have been on vacation with Spielberg,

00:59:32.849 –> 00:59:34.409
I think the weekend it released. I can’t remember

00:59:34.409 –> 00:59:36.469
the lore, but he was he was unhappy with the

00:59:36.469 –> 00:59:38.389
audio from the beginning. He’s just a constant.

00:59:39.420 –> 00:59:43.159
Constant Tinker of his stuff, which ignites a

00:59:43.159 –> 00:59:46.300
lot of debates in the fandom. But I want to see

00:59:46.300 –> 00:59:48.079
what George has next for what he does, including

00:59:48.079 –> 00:59:50.539
the famous McClunky he added added to the Greedo

00:59:50.539 –> 00:59:53.679
sequence at the very end. His last I actually

00:59:53.679 –> 00:59:55.900
am not familiar. Is that a more recent change?

00:59:56.300 –> 01:00:00.079
Yes. I forget the year now. Time has no meaning

01:00:00.079 –> 01:00:05.280
post 2020. It was when gosh, when was it? There

01:00:05.280 –> 01:00:07.519
was a fight. It was it was not too long ago.

01:00:08.670 –> 01:00:10.250
Well, maybe when they all cannot know when they

01:00:10.250 –> 01:00:12.110
came to Disney Plus, someone out there in the

01:00:12.110 –> 01:00:13.530
audience is probably screaming at me to get it,

01:00:13.530 –> 01:00:15.550
get it right. But one of the last things he did,

01:00:15.570 –> 01:00:17.250
and this had been sitting in the vaults for a

01:00:17.250 –> 01:00:20.030
bit since the sale is in the Haun and Greedo

01:00:20.030 –> 01:00:23.849
sequence right before the laser blasts start

01:00:23.849 –> 01:00:27.210
going. Han Solo says something and Greedo just

01:00:27.210 –> 01:00:29.190
goes, McClunky. And it’s like, no one really

01:00:29.190 –> 01:00:31.989
knows what it means. And I absolutely love that.

01:00:32.090 –> 01:00:34.010
I love that George is continuing to be like,

01:00:34.050 –> 01:00:36.750
get one more thing. One more thing. Wait, so

01:00:36.750 –> 01:00:41.239
I totally missed it. He Lucas changed the the

01:00:41.239 –> 01:00:44.460
who shot first situation. Could you catch me

01:00:44.460 –> 01:00:48.719
up on that? Yeah, it is. It’s a big controversy,

01:00:48.719 –> 01:00:52.380
but I am generally someone who is OK with the

01:00:52.380 –> 01:00:58.179
change. But but Han Han famously in New Hope

01:00:58.179 –> 01:01:01.460
for most of the time up to the 90s to the 97

01:01:01.460 –> 01:01:06.289
releases is confronted by Greedo. in Tatooine

01:01:06.289 –> 01:01:08.949
at Chalmers Muscle, I say Cantina, and shoots

01:01:08.949 –> 01:01:12.570
him because he knows he’s about to kill. In 97,

01:01:12.809 –> 01:01:15.349
George did a version that’s really, you know,

01:01:15.349 –> 01:01:17.949
doesn’t look great, number one, but and Grito

01:01:17.949 –> 01:01:21.730
kind of fires first and misses and a honed kill.

01:01:21.750 –> 01:01:24.130
So then I think they adjusted it again where

01:01:24.130 –> 01:01:26.570
they blasted kind of simultaneously. Simultaneous

01:01:26.570 –> 01:01:30.429
Grito just misses it. But it’s all it’s George’s

01:01:30.429 –> 01:01:33.369
big thought behind that was like he didn’t want

01:01:34.130 –> 01:01:37.170
Hawn to come off as just this straight -across

01:01:37.170 –> 01:01:39.130
cold -blooded killer. A lot of people don’t agree

01:01:39.130 –> 01:01:41.130
with that. I understand what George is doing

01:01:41.130 –> 01:01:46.269
Hawn is misunderstood. Hawn is not a bad guy

01:01:46.269 –> 01:01:48.949
in that film. He never was intended to be. He’s

01:01:48.949 –> 01:01:53.389
just someone who is at worst apolitical and uninvolved

01:01:53.389 –> 01:01:55.730
and trying to live this existence that he thought

01:01:55.730 –> 01:01:58.050
he was and that there’s this character that he’s

01:01:58.050 –> 01:02:00.369
always played from the beginning so Uh, it’s

01:02:00.369 –> 01:02:02.789
one of yeah and george has famously seen wearing

01:02:02.789 –> 01:02:07.349
a hon a hon shot first t -shirt On the set of

01:02:07.349 –> 01:02:10.369
the prequels. That’s amazing. Yeah, that’s great

01:02:10.369 –> 01:02:13.130
Yeah, no, I had no I knew that was always like

01:02:13.130 –> 01:02:16.130
a Argument or a debate among star wars fans,

01:02:16.170 –> 01:02:18.449
but I did not realize that george was like, all

01:02:18.449 –> 01:02:21.230
right. I’m gonna settle this Um, yeah. Yeah,

01:02:21.230 –> 01:02:24.630
and it’s very it’s a very gen x coded complaint.

01:02:25.289 –> 01:02:29.139
Um I get into many arguments and bars with friends

01:02:29.139 –> 01:02:32.980
when they start slagging on a lot of stuff. Generation

01:02:32.980 –> 01:02:36.139
X, which I’m right in the middle of, born in

01:02:36.139 –> 01:02:39.119
76. Generation X, the first chance they got to

01:02:39.119 –> 01:02:40.900
destroy Star Wars for the generation behind them,

01:02:41.079 –> 01:02:43.000
they did. They tried to. They tried to take it

01:02:43.000 –> 01:02:45.280
and make it theirs and tell you, ours was the

01:02:45.280 –> 01:02:48.079
best and yours sucked. That started in 97 with

01:02:48.079 –> 01:02:50.750
special editions. continues to this day as I

01:02:50.750 –> 01:02:55.190
get angry bars at friends. You know, I’m I’m

01:02:55.190 –> 01:03:00.250
an elder millennial and but I honestly like I

01:03:00.250 –> 01:03:02.610
decided with Gen X on that for a long time. I

01:03:02.610 –> 01:03:06.210
remember seeing the the special editions in the

01:03:06.210 –> 01:03:09.050
theaters and I was pretty disappointed. I there’s

01:03:09.050 –> 01:03:12.630
that was there like an added I think it was a

01:03:12.630 –> 01:03:16.280
scene that had been. left out of the original

01:03:16.280 –> 01:03:18.619
version that they re -added with Han, I think,

01:03:18.760 –> 01:03:21.460
talking to Jabba. And then he steps on his tail

01:03:21.460 –> 01:03:24.300
and then dies. And that bothered me so much,

01:03:24.400 –> 01:03:28.059
I can’t even tell you. It did. Yeah, that’s part

01:03:28.059 –> 01:03:29.699
of it. Yeah, part of the conversation. Yeah,

01:03:29.699 –> 01:03:31.579
but I think that the thing is when you grow up

01:03:31.579 –> 01:03:34.079
on something and you love it, it doesn’t matter

01:03:34.079 –> 01:03:36.340
what you do to it, people are going to be upset.

01:03:36.820 –> 01:03:40.500
Yeah, it’s a conversation far outside probably

01:03:40.500 –> 01:03:43.440
the intention of this podcast. Totally. Totally.

01:03:43.960 –> 01:03:47.320
Star Wars is nostalgia based from the beginning.

01:03:47.940 –> 01:03:50.539
Nostalgia gets thrown around as a bad word. It’s

01:03:50.539 –> 01:03:54.360
not. And Star Wars is as it’s much about nostalgia

01:03:54.360 –> 01:03:56.780
and speaking to people who grew up on serials

01:03:56.780 –> 01:03:59.719
adventures from the 30s, 40s and 50s. It is also

01:03:59.719 –> 01:04:01.659
a story a story about generational exchange.

01:04:02.099 –> 01:04:04.699
It is always it is about how you protect the

01:04:04.699 –> 01:04:07.460
the kids and the generation behind you. And that

01:04:07.460 –> 01:04:09.440
is on display very well in the Obi -Wan Kenobi

01:04:09.440 –> 01:04:11.360
series. It’s my favorite series because it deals

01:04:11.360 –> 01:04:14.940
with. how we scar and hurt the generations behind

01:04:14.940 –> 01:04:17.039
us and how we can do better in protecting them

01:04:17.039 –> 01:04:18.840
going forward. And I think a lot of Star Wars

01:04:18.840 –> 01:04:22.340
fans naturally just forget that. And I was part

01:04:22.340 –> 01:04:24.480
of, I was 23 when Phantom Menace came out and

01:04:24.480 –> 01:04:27.079
I too made my jokes. It’s now one of my favorite

01:04:27.079 –> 01:04:29.340
Star Wars films. Jar Jar Binks is one of my favorite

01:04:29.340 –> 01:04:31.579
characters. One of the reasons he’s one of my

01:04:31.579 –> 01:04:33.980
favorite characters is he represents one of the

01:04:33.980 –> 01:04:35.820
core tenets of Star Wars, which is that everyone

01:04:35.820 –> 01:04:38.539
has a place in the story. Everyone matters. And

01:04:38.539 –> 01:04:41.360
I in my years of podcasting have spoken to a

01:04:41.360 –> 01:04:45.340
lot of kids who are adults who are kids in 99,

01:04:45.639 –> 01:04:47.960
who are kids in 2005, who are kids when the Clone

01:04:47.960 –> 01:04:50.219
Wars came out, who are kids and special editions

01:04:50.219 –> 01:04:51.900
came out. They’re like, that’s my Star Wars.

01:04:51.900 –> 01:04:53.940
It spoke to me. And I’m now looking for NASA.

01:04:54.139 –> 01:04:56.539
I’m now a director. I’m now a dad. I’m now a

01:04:56.539 –> 01:04:58.780
mom. Like, and that’s what I I’m always about

01:04:58.780 –> 01:05:02.159
that, you know, protecting everyone’s entry points

01:05:02.159 –> 01:05:04.340
into Star Wars. Now, I really respect that answer.

01:05:04.420 –> 01:05:07.400
That’s great. But, you know, carrying that forward,

01:05:07.480 –> 01:05:10.980
how do you think they’re doing protecting that

01:05:10.980 –> 01:05:12.980
might not be the right word, but but carrying

01:05:12.980 –> 01:05:15.840
on the Star Wars legacy in this new iteration?

01:05:16.860 –> 01:05:19.099
I think I personally they’ve done an absolute

01:05:19.099 –> 01:05:21.420
spectacular job and I have been in the middle

01:05:21.420 –> 01:05:23.460
of it. I was on Collider Jedi Council during

01:05:23.460 –> 01:05:28.579
the mid 2000s. I mean, mid 2000s teens, which

01:05:28.579 –> 01:05:32.880
was a very heightened era of debate and culture

01:05:32.880 –> 01:05:35.340
wars that were that Star Wars was pulled into.

01:05:35.630 –> 01:05:39.010
So you’re going to see a lot of things. My and

01:05:39.010 –> 01:05:41.030
my podcast partners, Jennifer Landon, Joseph

01:05:41.030 –> 01:05:43.230
Grimshaw, our approach is to engage with the

01:05:43.230 –> 01:05:46.289
art that’s presented to you. So many people because

01:05:46.289 –> 01:05:48.889
it’s fun. So many people go into Star Wars stories

01:05:48.889 –> 01:05:51.389
with expectations and predictions and thoughts

01:05:51.389 –> 01:05:53.570
of things that should happen when it doesn’t.

01:05:53.570 –> 01:05:55.889
We have now grab a phone, grab a social media

01:05:55.889 –> 01:05:58.449
app and start yelling your grumpiness about it,

01:05:58.449 –> 01:05:59.969
which I understand sometimes it doesn’t go your

01:05:59.969 –> 01:06:01.909
way. But when you engage with the art that’s

01:06:01.909 –> 01:06:03.510
presented to you and you find what’s there, you’ll

01:06:03.510 –> 01:06:05.820
find that all these new stories. at their heart

01:06:05.820 –> 01:06:09.679
are just completely aligned with what George

01:06:09.679 –> 01:06:12.460
put out there. George has changed the way he

01:06:12.460 –> 01:06:14.320
approached things and everything, but he always

01:06:14.320 –> 01:06:16.960
had these core tenets. And when things don’t

01:06:16.960 –> 01:06:21.039
work, that’s why they’re pulled back. Episode

01:06:21.039 –> 01:06:24.099
nine, the Colin Chavaro episode, there’s a lot

01:06:24.099 –> 01:06:26.059
of reasons that we don’t know why he got pulled.

01:06:26.099 –> 01:06:29.159
But one of the reasons was his story was wrong

01:06:29.159 –> 01:06:33.179
about how he dealt with light and dark. And he

01:06:33.179 –> 01:06:35.539
wouldn’t budge off that, according to some of

01:06:35.539 –> 01:06:36.980
the lore and legends around it. And they were

01:06:36.980 –> 01:06:40.440
like, that’s not how it’s presented. There’s

01:06:40.440 –> 01:06:42.579
guide rails not in story, but there’s guide rails

01:06:42.579 –> 01:06:46.039
in how you present the story. So Last Jedi is

01:06:46.039 –> 01:06:48.639
a movie that deconstructs everything that Star

01:06:48.639 –> 01:06:51.760
Wars was and rebuilds it back up to say, yes,

01:06:51.900 –> 01:06:54.590
we do need this. We do need a hero. We do need

01:06:54.590 –> 01:06:56.389
everyone involved. We do need to find your place

01:06:56.389 –> 01:06:59.469
in the story. I Will Die on the Hill that rises

01:06:59.469 –> 01:07:02.449
Skywalker with Chris Terrio’s work is connected

01:07:02.449 –> 01:07:04.630
so much to the heart of what Lucas put out there.

01:07:04.710 –> 01:07:06.769
It answers the questions around Princess Leia

01:07:06.769 –> 01:07:09.289
being the other one. There’s two. There’s Luke

01:07:09.289 –> 01:07:12.190
and Leia. That film pays that off in this wonderful

01:07:12.190 –> 01:07:15.150
way. It’s also a great story about people rising

01:07:15.150 –> 01:07:18.969
up and fighting an evil that is persistent. So

01:07:18.969 –> 01:07:20.550
there’s a lot of great things that I think never

01:07:20.550 –> 01:07:23.880
stray too far. what George put out there. George

01:07:23.880 –> 01:07:26.539
himself confesses to be grumpy. He wants to do

01:07:26.539 –> 01:07:29.199
something new. Force Awakens was a soft reboot

01:07:29.199 –> 01:07:30.780
without a doubt, but I think it nailed it in

01:07:30.780 –> 01:07:32.139
a lot of ways. George thought it was a little

01:07:32.139 –> 01:07:33.679
too similar to what he did, and I think that’s

01:07:33.679 –> 01:07:37.699
a fair complaint. It’s also a corporately run

01:07:37.699 –> 01:07:41.760
IP, and some of the stuff, some of the meddling

01:07:41.760 –> 01:07:44.639
from Disney and Uncle Bob Iger and all that stuff,

01:07:44.679 –> 01:07:47.420
I think has affected it or the fans’ perceptions

01:07:47.420 –> 01:07:49.969
of it. But I think when you engage with the art

01:07:49.969 –> 01:07:52.070
presented to you, it is completely in line with

01:07:52.070 –> 01:07:54.730
what George started. I thought Rogue One was

01:07:54.730 –> 01:07:58.789
just one of the best movies. I haven’t seen admittedly,

01:07:58.849 –> 01:08:01.289
I haven’t seen like every new thing that’s come

01:08:01.289 –> 01:08:03.849
out recently. But like I just I loved Rogue One

01:08:03.849 –> 01:08:09.340
and I particularly loved how it ended like. everybody

01:08:09.340 –> 01:08:12.360
dies. No, sorry. Spoiler alert. Major spoiler

01:08:12.360 –> 01:08:17.819
there. But like that’s totally, uh, but you know,

01:08:17.859 –> 01:08:19.800
like that’s like something that we don’t see

01:08:19.800 –> 01:08:23.020
a lot in cinema in general. And, um, you know,

01:08:23.119 –> 01:08:25.720
it kind of threw, threw me back to empire strikes

01:08:25.720 –> 01:08:29.279
back and, uh, which, you know, as they say in

01:08:29.279 –> 01:08:33.020
clerks ended on such a down note, you know, but

01:08:33.020 –> 01:08:35.500
that’s also that that’s generally considered

01:08:35.500 –> 01:08:38.930
the bus star wars. Is it not? Empire Strikes

01:08:38.930 –> 01:08:42.329
Back. Yeah. Yeah, I think it’s the most complete

01:08:42.329 –> 01:08:45.949
film of them all. It was shot beautifully and

01:08:45.949 –> 01:08:47.710
set the tone, even though New Hope set a lot

01:08:47.710 –> 01:08:49.590
of the aesthetic. How you shoot Star Wars, how

01:08:49.590 –> 01:08:52.010
you shoot Darth Vader was kind of set in Empire.

01:08:52.829 –> 01:08:56.029
And Irving Kershner, the director, had different

01:08:56.029 –> 01:08:57.729
elements to work with. You know, he didn’t have

01:08:57.729 –> 01:09:00.489
he had the big battle in the beginning that the

01:09:00.489 –> 01:09:02.920
good guys got their asses kicked. And it was

01:09:02.920 –> 01:09:05.300
just forced to be not only the darkest of the

01:09:05.300 –> 01:09:06.760
trilogy, but forced to be the most character

01:09:06.760 –> 01:09:09.340
driven. And I think that’s that’s probably what

01:09:09.340 –> 01:09:11.939
carries today in the film discussion. Which I

01:09:11.939 –> 01:09:15.859
always like when you look at a lot of things

01:09:15.859 –> 01:09:18.239
that have become big franchises and you look

01:09:18.239 –> 01:09:22.020
at their very first work in that they usually

01:09:22.020 –> 01:09:24.539
have like a low budget and they are forced for

01:09:24.539 –> 01:09:27.340
it to be. more character driven and they’re almost

01:09:27.340 –> 01:09:30.479
always the best films, you know, like, I mean,

01:09:30.600 –> 01:09:33.039
stranger things. The first season is like probably

01:09:33.039 –> 01:09:35.720
the best season. And it’s because low bud, lower

01:09:35.720 –> 01:09:38.939
budget, more character driven because you get

01:09:38.939 –> 01:09:40.680
more invested with characters than you do with

01:09:40.680 –> 01:09:43.100
the battle sequence, you know? Yeah. Yeah, I

01:09:43.100 –> 01:09:45.000
know that we’ve been talking for a while here.

01:09:45.600 –> 01:09:47.100
I mean, there’s a reason why you wrote a book

01:09:47.100 –> 01:09:49.399
about Star Wars and all its greatest moments.

01:09:49.520 –> 01:09:53.760
And you clearly have a deep knowledge of everything.

01:09:54.199 –> 01:09:56.319
So thank you for educating us and anyone else

01:09:56.319 –> 01:09:58.600
who didn’t know all this stuff as well. I have

01:09:58.600 –> 01:10:01.000
I have a question for you and I’m going to give

01:10:01.000 –> 01:10:03.760
you some context for this. Think about it. So

01:10:03.760 –> 01:10:06.220
I decided to watch the original Indiana Jones

01:10:06.220 –> 01:10:10.800
trilogy in chronological order, which means Temple

01:10:10.800 –> 01:10:14.159
of Doom takes place before. What’s the first

01:10:14.159 –> 01:10:19.100
Raiders? And then third would be Last Crusade.

01:10:19.779 –> 01:10:21.680
And I’ve always loved Temple of Doom because

01:10:21.680 –> 01:10:24.119
it’s the darkest, but it’s also what I would

01:10:24.119 –> 01:10:25.739
say is the most entertaining. And so I watched

01:10:25.739 –> 01:10:28.720
that first. Then I watched Raiders. Then I watched.

01:10:30.460 –> 01:10:33.279
Last Crusade. And what I noticed is I was like,

01:10:33.420 –> 01:10:38.039
they shot Raiders first, but if you look at Temple

01:10:38.039 –> 01:10:41.979
of Doom, Indiana Jones has so much more flavor

01:10:41.979 –> 01:10:44.680
as a character. He’s got more jokes. He’s more

01:10:44.680 –> 01:10:49.500
entertaining. And you notice that in Last Crusade

01:10:49.500 –> 01:10:51.520
as well. But then when you watch Raiders in between

01:10:51.520 –> 01:10:55.760
them, He’s kind of a bit more flat and more like

01:10:55.760 –> 01:10:58.779
straightforward. Now, with that in mind, have

01:10:58.779 –> 01:11:01.560
you like watched the Star Wars in certain orders

01:11:01.560 –> 01:11:03.699
and like noticed anything like that that jumped

01:11:03.699 –> 01:11:06.380
out at you that probably otherwise wouldn’t have?

01:11:07.180 –> 01:11:09.680
No, no. And I’m a huge Indiana Jones fan. It’s

01:11:09.680 –> 01:11:12.579
my favorite cinematic character. So I love that

01:11:12.579 –> 01:11:14.520
stuff. Could talk for a long time on that too.

01:11:14.659 –> 01:11:16.319
And Temple of Doom being one that’s pure horror.

01:11:16.720 –> 01:11:19.479
Terrified. I think I’m the reason that things

01:11:19.479 –> 01:11:21.739
that PG -13 existed in my head because I think

01:11:21.739 –> 01:11:25.420
my mom wrote some very stern letters about the

01:11:25.420 –> 01:11:28.579
heart sequence and her little Kenny. Do not scare

01:11:28.579 –> 01:11:33.000
baby kid. Do not scare my child. It was the monkey

01:11:33.000 –> 01:11:38.460
brain for me, though. Yes. Snake surprise. And

01:11:38.460 –> 01:11:40.119
I get so much to say about that movie and how

01:11:40.119 –> 01:11:42.300
it’s a movie that talks about Western American

01:11:42.300 –> 01:11:46.479
decadence and everything is. is about the West

01:11:46.479 –> 01:11:49.220
not acknowledging or paying attention to other

01:11:49.220 –> 01:11:51.279
cultures. And Temple of Doom has some of the

01:11:51.279 –> 01:11:54.520
more problematic white sacred trope stuff that

01:11:54.520 –> 01:11:56.100
people talk about, and I don’t disagree with

01:11:56.100 –> 01:11:57.619
that, but I think a lot of people miss the point

01:11:57.619 –> 01:11:59.779
of what that film’s trying to say about American

01:11:59.779 –> 01:12:02.819
and Western views on other cultures. But as far

01:12:02.819 –> 01:12:04.800
as the Star Wars release, it’s so hard because

01:12:04.800 –> 01:12:06.979
I’m always gonna watch probably in release order.

01:12:07.420 –> 01:12:09.960
On my RL Podcast series we’re doing and leading

01:12:09.960 –> 01:12:11.920
up to Mandalorian and Grogu, we’re doing our

01:12:11.920 –> 01:12:14.039
favorite moments, favorite scenes from each movie.

01:12:14.100 –> 01:12:15.920
And we went episode one and we’re doing release

01:12:15.920 –> 01:12:20.460
order. It doesn’t change for me. I will get grumpy

01:12:20.460 –> 01:12:22.659
if people suggest the machete order, which is

01:12:22.659 –> 01:12:26.140
something that cuts out Phantom Menace and says

01:12:26.140 –> 01:12:28.159
it has nothing to do with the story. It has everything

01:12:28.159 –> 01:12:30.119
to do with the story. So I don’t play around

01:12:30.119 –> 01:12:31.619
with those things. I don’t play around with fan

01:12:31.619 –> 01:12:34.859
edits. The Tobey Maguire famous fan. I don’t.

01:12:35.260 –> 01:12:37.479
But in terms of release order, it is tough. It

01:12:37.479 –> 01:12:40.800
is because I am a Generation X 80s kid. So if

01:12:40.800 –> 01:12:42.199
I’m going to be like, hey, where does Star Wars

01:12:42.199 –> 01:12:44.319
start? It starts with episode four, New Hope,

01:12:45.399 –> 01:12:48.500
1977. Right. But in terms of your observation

01:12:48.500 –> 01:12:50.079
of the Raider stuff, it’s fascinating because,

01:12:50.359 –> 01:12:54.100
yeah, it was presented differently, right? Yeah.

01:12:54.479 –> 01:12:56.500
I don’t think it downgraded. And Last Crusade

01:12:56.500 –> 01:12:57.880
is like my favorite because that’s the first

01:12:57.880 –> 01:12:59.659
one I remember seeing in the thing. Well, Temple

01:12:59.659 –> 01:13:01.140
of Doom. But that’s the first one I like as a

01:13:01.140 –> 01:13:03.060
12 -year -old 13 -year -old wouldn’t saw Last

01:13:03.060 –> 01:13:05.909
Crusade. And I love it. And a lot of people think

01:13:05.909 –> 01:13:07.609
Spielberg just got to reuse some of the stuff.

01:13:07.750 –> 01:13:10.689
Maybe. I don’t know. It’s fun. That’s my favorite

01:13:10.689 –> 01:13:13.430
one. Be honest. What a lot of people actually

01:13:13.430 –> 01:13:16.310
prefer Last Crusade. But what I’ll say is I think

01:13:16.310 –> 01:13:20.470
because they established him in Raiders, then

01:13:20.470 –> 01:13:21.909
when they’re doing like a darker one, they’re

01:13:21.909 –> 01:13:23.590
like, we need levity. And that’s probably where

01:13:23.590 –> 01:13:26.130
the humor comes. And then they took that element

01:13:26.130 –> 01:13:29.880
and put that in. Last Crusade, right? So that’s

01:13:29.880 –> 01:13:32.979
why it struck me as very odd the way Raiders

01:13:32.979 –> 01:13:35.460
jumped out. I mean, fantastic film, obviously,

01:13:35.479 –> 01:13:37.460
but I was just like, oh, it’s a different indie.

01:13:38.000 –> 01:13:39.560
Yeah. I think you’re absolutely right. Absolutely

01:13:39.560 –> 01:13:42.680
right. Cool. Well, is there anything that you’re

01:13:42.680 –> 01:13:45.760
working on right now or you’re excited to talk

01:13:45.760 –> 01:13:49.220
about and share with our listeners? Yeah, in

01:13:49.220 –> 01:13:52.880
terms of, you know, shows every week, about three

01:13:52.880 –> 01:13:55.180
or four episodes a week, we do Four Center, which

01:13:55.180 –> 01:13:57.300
is with me, Joseph Grimshaw and Jennifer Landa.

01:13:57.860 –> 01:14:00.199
As a celebration of Star Wars, as you can tell,

01:14:00.300 –> 01:14:01.760
I’m pretty positive about all the stuff that

01:14:01.760 –> 01:14:03.239
doesn’t mean we don’t criticize or have things

01:14:03.239 –> 01:14:06.819
that are liked more than others. But we approach

01:14:06.819 –> 01:14:09.760
it thematically. The example I always give of

01:14:09.760 –> 01:14:12.319
Force Center, if anyone even likes anything I’ve

01:14:12.319 –> 01:14:13.939
said in this episode today and isn’t yelling

01:14:13.939 –> 01:14:16.920
at me because of some of my opinions. We famously

01:14:16.920 –> 01:14:19.180
have a two hour episode breaking down what we

01:14:19.180 –> 01:14:20.739
feel is the most important scene of the prequels,

01:14:20.800 –> 01:14:23.569
which is the Dexter’s diner sequence. In attack

01:14:23.569 –> 01:14:25.409
of the clones that a lot of people make fun of

01:14:25.409 –> 01:14:27.949
via Dexter. It’s a 1950s diner We we think that

01:14:27.949 –> 01:14:31.050
is literally the heart of George Lucas’s prequel

01:14:31.050 –> 01:14:33.250
trilogy We spent two hours breaking it down thematically

01:14:33.250 –> 01:14:36.250
if you like that come hang out with four cents

01:14:36.250 –> 01:14:39.170
and do that I got my own stuff and yeah a tap

01:14:39.170 –> 01:14:41.170
mentioned up top if you’re local in Southern

01:14:41.170 –> 01:14:45.050
California or to Hollywood Burbank Valley area

01:14:45.050 –> 01:14:48.890
on May 24th the weekend of Mandalorian Grogu’s

01:14:48.890 –> 01:14:51.909
release. We’re doing a Star Wars and pop culture

01:14:51.909 –> 01:14:53.689
theme, but mostly Star Wars themed comedy show

01:14:53.689 –> 01:14:57.170
at Flappers and Burbank 5 p .m. show. My co -host

01:14:57.170 –> 01:14:59.210
Joseph Scrimshaw is a great performer. Mike Black

01:14:59.210 –> 01:15:01.109
from the Comedy Store is a longtime Star Wars

01:15:01.109 –> 01:15:03.510
fan and toy expert. Jackie Cation is a great

01:15:03.510 –> 01:15:05.470
comic and a nerd at heart. And Josh Schneider

01:15:05.470 –> 01:15:08.689
is a Star Trek guy, but he it’s his series and

01:15:08.689 –> 01:15:10.550
he’s it’s his show and he’s let me kind of book

01:15:10.550 –> 01:15:11.869
it that night. So we’re going to come on out,

01:15:11.869 –> 01:15:14.170
do some Star Wars comedy. I’ve got a lot of jokes

01:15:14.170 –> 01:15:15.789
in my act that have always been about Star Wars.

01:15:15.829 –> 01:15:17.310
We’re going to do some fun things, maybe even

01:15:17.310 –> 01:15:19.270
some toy giveaways. So come on out if you’re

01:15:19.270 –> 01:15:22.279
local. Heck yeah. I want to go. You guys totally

01:15:22.279 –> 01:15:24.220
should. Like I’m going. You guys should come

01:15:24.220 –> 01:15:26.100
hang. All right. Well, thanks for taking your

01:15:26.100 –> 01:15:29.100
time to speak with us today and educate us about

01:15:29.100 –> 01:15:32.199
the darker sides of Star Wars. And I’m really

01:15:32.199 –> 01:15:35.220
excited to re -watch things with that in mind

01:15:35.220 –> 01:15:38.859
and, you know, your words. So I appreciate you

01:15:38.859 –> 01:15:41.180
coming on. I appreciate you guys. You all having

01:15:41.180 –> 01:15:45.250
me? A lot of fun. You’ve inspired me, Peter,

01:15:45.510 –> 01:15:47.649
to get better at Indiana Jones and the Golden

01:15:47.649 –> 01:15:50.409
Circle video game, which is tough. I’m not very

01:15:50.409 –> 01:15:53.350
good at. So is that is that the newest one? Yeah.

01:15:53.710 –> 01:15:58.189
Yeah. Yeah. You’re on your Sony versus Xbox.

01:15:58.449 –> 01:16:01.409
Yeah. And it’s a first person game. And I can’t.

01:16:01.409 –> 01:16:03.630
It’s terrible. Did you did you play the emperor’s

01:16:03.630 –> 01:16:06.979
tomb? I did not know. Oh, that was fantastic

01:16:06.979 –> 01:16:09.939
that I was obsessed with it. Highly recommend

01:16:09.939 –> 01:16:11.779
if you’re able to access that. That was like

01:16:11.779 –> 01:16:16.439
2003 ish. Yeah. Great. Indiana Jones game. Yeah.

01:16:16.439 –> 01:16:19.420
Adorable. I love it. Thank you very much for

01:16:19.420 –> 01:16:23.359
making time. Yeah. Thank you, Ken. Awesome. Thanks

01:16:23.359 –> 01:16:25.659
so much to Ken Napsock for chatting Star Wars

01:16:25.659 –> 01:16:27.100
with us. Hopefully everyone learned a little

01:16:27.100 –> 01:16:29.680
bit something that’s outside of the norm when

01:16:29.680 –> 01:16:31.420
it comes to the horrors and like the deep lore

01:16:31.420 –> 01:16:34.760
of Star Wars. And yeah, thank you. I mean, I.

01:16:34.760 –> 01:16:36.279
I definitely did. I actually have been thinking

01:16:36.279 –> 01:16:39.399
about that conversation since we recorded yesterday.

01:16:39.479 –> 01:16:42.060
I’ve been thinking about it all night. It’s I

01:16:42.060 –> 01:16:43.819
even went back and looked at a few things and

01:16:43.819 –> 01:16:46.460
I was like, yeah, man, this is yeah. Yeah. He

01:16:46.460 –> 01:16:48.520
he definitely has a really interesting perspective

01:16:48.520 –> 01:16:50.500
on Star Wars, like things. I mean, it’s been

01:16:50.500 –> 01:16:52.659
a while since I’ve watched that stuff, but you

01:16:52.659 –> 01:16:55.020
could tell how much thought he puts into what

01:16:55.020 –> 01:16:59.199
it’s really saying in like a meaningful humanistic

01:16:59.199 –> 01:17:02.500
way. Yeah. Yeah. He’s smart. He’s Star Wars smart.

01:17:02.720 –> 01:17:04.779
Yeah. And everybody always talks about how You

01:17:04.779 –> 01:17:07.260
know, like Star Trek is the one for intellectuals

01:17:07.260 –> 01:17:09.720
and Star Wars is the one for like, I don’t know,

01:17:09.859 –> 01:17:12.939
fun or whatever. But like he really made a good

01:17:12.939 –> 01:17:15.520
he makes a good case for Star Wars being far

01:17:15.520 –> 01:17:18.340
more intellectual than people get credit for.

01:17:18.479 –> 01:17:23.079
You know, it’s just him. Well, I mean, so I did.

01:17:23.199 –> 01:17:26.000
Were you guys Star Trek fans? I liked them both

01:17:26.000 –> 01:17:28.659
personally. You did. I just know the one movie

01:17:28.659 –> 01:17:30.439
where they went to save the whales and it was

01:17:30.439 –> 01:17:32.939
only because there was a flying whale. And then

01:17:32.939 –> 01:17:35.659
the con one with the earwig. So those are the

01:17:35.659 –> 01:17:37.479
only two I remember and I don’t know anything

01:17:37.479 –> 01:17:39.720
else about Star Trek. You’ve never seen the show?

01:17:40.920 –> 01:17:43.479
No. Oh, wow. Any other shows? There’s been like

01:17:43.479 –> 01:17:46.340
five or six of them. No, I’ve never watched Doctor

01:17:46.340 –> 01:17:48.600
Who either. I actually don’t really like the

01:17:48.600 –> 01:17:50.279
new Star Trek. I might get some haters for that,

01:17:50.279 –> 01:17:52.520
but I think all the new Star Trek, it’s like

01:17:52.520 –> 01:17:55.460
they all feel very… un -Star Trek -y to me.

01:17:55.619 –> 01:17:57.239
It’s like the marvel -ification of Star Trek

01:17:57.239 –> 01:18:00.840
and I just wasn’t into it. Star Trek, like, as

01:18:00.840 –> 01:18:03.140
a kid, it just seemed boring to me. It was like

01:18:03.140 –> 01:18:06.560
a bunch of weird -looking people in their suits

01:18:06.560 –> 01:18:09.640
on a ship and I’m like, what? Where’s the fun?

01:18:09.920 –> 01:18:12.239
Yeah, they’re not, there’s not like an action

01:18:12.239 –> 01:18:14.939
show, you know? Like, it’s very much like when

01:18:14.939 –> 01:18:17.789
there’s any kind of action, it’s like… Here’s

01:18:17.789 –> 01:18:22.250
the razor. Right. We’re pissing off people left

01:18:22.250 –> 01:18:26.170
and right today. I love it. But what’s cool about

01:18:26.170 –> 01:18:28.229
it is it was always kind of like a way to talk

01:18:28.229 –> 01:18:30.109
about, particularly in the 70s when it came out

01:18:30.109 –> 01:18:34.449
or whatever. Was it 70s? I think so. Yeah. But

01:18:34.449 –> 01:18:36.449
it was like a way that they could talk about

01:18:36.449 –> 01:18:39.569
sort of like social issues in the country. It

01:18:39.569 –> 01:18:42.250
was like the first interracial kiss on TV. Is

01:18:42.250 –> 01:18:47.239
that right? And Captain Kirk, I do knew that

01:18:47.239 –> 01:18:49.380
because I’ve interviewed them. So I do, I do

01:18:49.380 –> 01:18:50.899
know that, but I’ve never seen the shows. And

01:18:50.899 –> 01:18:54.020
I think they were all vegetarians too. I think

01:18:54.020 –> 01:18:55.399
that was part of it. Like, I think there was

01:18:55.399 –> 01:18:57.720
a lot of talk about that, but they, but now that

01:18:57.720 –> 01:18:59.260
you mentioned it, like, I don’t know if I’ve

01:18:59.260 –> 01:19:00.979
seen it. What do they eat? They were just on

01:19:00.979 –> 01:19:03.100
a ship. They didn’t actually hunt anything. Well,

01:19:03.260 –> 01:19:05.140
they had replicators that could replicate any

01:19:05.140 –> 01:19:07.720
kind of, you need to watch more Star Trek. That’s

01:19:07.720 –> 01:19:11.619
like basic. That’s basic. I feel like it is basic.

01:19:12.060 –> 01:19:15.960
I mean, maybe as an adult, it would have appealed

01:19:15.960 –> 01:19:19.819
to me a bit more. But yeah, I, you know, I get,

01:19:19.819 –> 01:19:22.020
I get why people find it boring. I actually would

01:19:22.020 –> 01:19:23.859
try to rewatch. I’m going to get haters for this

01:19:23.859 –> 01:19:26.739
too. I loved the next generation when I was younger

01:19:26.739 –> 01:19:29.539
and was out the nineties. And I went back and

01:19:29.539 –> 01:19:31.340
tried to rewatch it when they dropped it on Netflix,

01:19:31.359 –> 01:19:34.000
like, I don’t know, seven, eight years ago. And,

01:19:34.000 –> 01:19:37.310
uh, I was like, Is this just the first season

01:19:37.310 –> 01:19:39.270
boring or is all of it boring, you know? And

01:19:39.270 –> 01:19:41.189
then I was like, OK, it’s not quite as good as

01:19:41.189 –> 01:19:44.069
I remember. But yeah, so great. Well, thanks

01:19:44.069 –> 01:19:45.390
for chatting. Are you guys going to do anything

01:19:45.390 –> 01:19:48.689
cool this weekend or week? Do I? Oh, this coming

01:19:48.689 –> 01:19:52.789
week is Comic Con Revolution in Ontario. So I’m

01:19:52.789 –> 01:19:56.430
going to go check that out. That’s this weekend.

01:19:56.850 –> 01:19:58.289
But they really have a comic con everywhere,

01:19:58.329 –> 01:20:00.779
don’t they? They do. And for me, like, there’s

01:20:00.779 –> 01:20:02.279
artists out here like I’ve never met. And I’m

01:20:02.279 –> 01:20:04.020
really excited to meet Chris Claremont, who’s

01:20:04.020 –> 01:20:05.939
one of like the biggest like X -Men creators

01:20:05.939 –> 01:20:08.260
and writers and just in comics in general. And

01:20:08.260 –> 01:20:11.039
I’ve never met him. And I think he’s maybe been

01:20:11.039 –> 01:20:13.659
to Texas once or twice. He doesn’t get down there

01:20:13.659 –> 01:20:16.100
anyway. So I’m really stoked to go. That’s by

01:20:16.100 –> 01:20:20.399
design, I’m sure. Yeah, yeah, for sure. You don’t

01:20:20.399 –> 01:20:24.520
avoid Texas on accident. But yeah, so I’m going

01:20:24.520 –> 01:20:26.399
to go check out Comic Con Revolution. And then,

01:20:26.579 –> 01:20:29.930
yeah, that’s that’s about it. Right on. Peter?

01:20:30.670 –> 01:20:33.090
I’m going back East. Right. That’s right. When

01:20:33.090 –> 01:20:36.890
do you leave? What day? Thursday. I’ll be gone

01:20:36.890 –> 01:20:39.789
for a week. Right on. Well, say hi to Stephen.

01:20:40.510 –> 01:20:43.590
Stephen King. I think he lives in Florida now.

01:20:44.729 –> 01:20:47.029
Just like every other old person. I would say

01:20:47.029 –> 01:20:49.810
that that’s our destiny. Even if you are progressive,

01:20:50.029 –> 01:20:52.590
it’s to go to Florida. No, it’s like the that’s

01:20:52.590 –> 01:20:55.890
where the like East Coast old people and conservative

01:20:55.890 –> 01:20:59.289
old people go. And then like more liberal and

01:20:59.289 –> 01:21:02.390
West Coast old people are, you know. We stay

01:21:02.390 –> 01:21:04.510
here. We stay here. Southern California. But

01:21:04.510 –> 01:21:06.430
we’ll probably just end up in like Orange County

01:21:06.430 –> 01:21:09.270
or like, you know, the Inland Empire or something

01:21:09.270 –> 01:21:11.949
like that. Yeah, it’s too hot. It’s too hot over

01:21:11.949 –> 01:21:14.810
here. All right. Well, thanks for tuning in,

01:21:14.909 –> 01:21:20.189
guys. Thank you all. Bye bye now. Bye. We want

01:21:20.189 –> 01:21:22.430
to give a big shout out to Ken Napsock for coming

01:21:22.430 –> 01:21:24.489
on the show and educating us about the horrors

01:21:24.489 –> 01:21:27.520
of Star Wars. If you want to check out today’s

01:21:27.520 –> 01:21:29.760
show notes, go to our website at nightmarelogic

01:21:29.760 –> 01:21:33.560
.net or follow us on Instagram at nightmarelogicpod.

01:21:33.899 –> 01:21:35.680
We want to give a big shout out to our composer

01:21:35.680 –> 01:21:39.020
Lars Lang -Petersen for an awesome score. Check

01:21:39.020 –> 01:21:40.319
in next week where we’re going to have another

01:21:40.319 –> 01:21:42.840
engaging conversation about horror genre and

01:21:42.840 –> 01:21:45.520
other independent filmmaking topics. Thank you.